Applying Occam's Razor, the simpler explanation is that PG actually does use nickb as a sock puppet, made a mistake, and then attempted to cover it up using April Fool's Day as a convenient excuse.
The chance that the mistake would happen today in particular is what makes it not the simplest explanation. That also wouldn't explain why the comment would appear on pg's comments thread.
it must be a joke. i looked back at nickb's posts and he mentioned depending on textmate?! no way a vi user would betray the brotherhood, even in puppet form.
Damn. Forgot that. Yes, sorry, it's an April Fools' joke. Thanks, Alex, for helping out. The recent outage (now fixed, let's hope) is unconnected, btw.
Personally I think it would have been funnier if it was rms or someone else slightly more controversial :) Before I realised it was a joke I just couldn't understand where you found the time submit so many articles.
I've waited as long as I can stand it before inserting a spoiler:
"In the early 1990s, I was writing a lot of essays and columns for magazines and journals, so much so that I was using a pseudonym for some of that work: Nickieben Bourbaki. The original idea for the name was that my staff at Lucid would help with the writing, and the single pseudonym would represent the collective, much as the French mathematicians in the 1930s used "Nicolas Bourbaki" as their collective name while rewriting the foundations of mathematics in their image. However, no one but I wrote anything under that name."
I can't take too much credit. I bit on the story hook, line and sinker. I started to write a comment saying in essence, "So what if Paul is writing under a nom de plume, there are good reasons for doing so..."
One of the good examples that came immediately to mind was Richard Gabriel. So I Googled "Worse Is Better" and copied that exact paragraph to insert as a quotation to support my point.
Then I read what I had just pasted and the light went on...
Oh, let me tell you the lead-up there is perfect—serendipitous or otherwise. I had a smooth transition: "Really? That seems pretty interes---- oh man, brilliant!"
This reminds one time when I first started playing Counter Strike. I found myself alone one night and could finally play CS without anyone bitching, so I indulged late into the night teaming up with this very highly efficient group of players. Their usage of team commands was incredible and I, being a newbie, followed the better players around closely, often being the support gunner. The teamwork was magical and you just felt the chemistry.
After a few hours, I decided to start making small talk. Then, to my horror, I realized I had been playing with bots the entire time.
Pseudonyms can be used to good effect. Ben Franklin used them extensively. They're especially good for testing out or spreading ideas you'd like to have considered apart from their source.
When I started a small social site, the first thing I did was create 40 nicknames and start talking to myself. Boot-strapping a social site is tough. Most users leave if they see an empty site.
All I can say is wow. Especially after his most recent essay on intellectual honesty. What bullshit. TechStars is looking better and better all the time.
Chillout. Keep in mind that every website that depends on community activity, starts as a ghost town, with fictional accounts, (which are owned by the creators of the website) that start posting/commenting, to get it jump started, and make new commers feel like there is a reason to stay.
Every single web 2.0 website does this, so I don't think that is dishonest.
Maybe Pg. liked the anonimity of his alter ego, nickb, and kept posting on his name, and got carried on (and forgot to switch names). And if you see nickb, stats, he is probably the oldest user in here.
user: nickb
created: 406 days ago
karma: 10982
about: My email: nickb.yc {at} gmail.
This is the only site where I comment/post. I am not 'nickb' on any other site.
Yes, dating websites have that, but there is clear maliciousness in that, as they try to make you think somebody is interested on you, so you can fork money. News.yc is not trying to bilk money out of you, or try to play with your emotions. PG using nickb's name (if it is so), might be similiar to countless of writers that user pseudonims on their work. I doesn't make them worse people for doing so.
Anyways, all web 2.0 have gohsts, or test accounts, youtube, friendster (used to have them marked as test), facebook, you name it. and of course, we have Tom of myspace, the most profilic account ever (who lied about his age too). So, what?
The value of news.yc is the great submissions and comments comming from everybody, and not just pg, nickb, or whoever else.
Another difference is that dating sites typically "borrow" the images of very hot young ladies. That's certainly a much greater level of deceptiveness.
I used to make and sell software for classified ad management, including personals. There is a loose code of ethics for newspapers: they will post "filler" ads if there aren't enough paying customers, however they never pretend to contact a customer and they maintain custoemr privacy.
For example, one client had filler adverts in their personals section. There was a box number for snail mail replies, and their strict policy was that all replies to the fictitious ads were shredded unopened and unread.
Just an anecdote, no opinion on what is and is not legitimate business...
Somehow I still feel cheated. I'm working on a social news site, and we do not use ghost accounts or fake stats. People still suspect us doing it anyway :( Now I know - they have a good reason to suspect everybody.
For a site like jaanix or reddit (or news.yc), there's no implicit fraud in having lots of ghost accounts, as long as you don't include them in stats to advertisers or whatever. People come for the content, not because others are there.
Hm. It still seems like consistency would fix that. It would make "doing it right" a little harder, but it could be done with no loss for normal users, I think.
I can think of other explanations including April Fools Day, data corruption and a problematic upgrade which affected accounts and logins. Alteratively, given the essay What You Can't Say ( http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html ) and the recent drop in essay quality, it is possible that some essays are ghost written.
I have evidence that pg has been outsourcing everything, and is now working a 4 hour work week.
Willing to sell this evidence to the highest bidder, but pg has already offered a spot in the next YC round to me. He also is throwing in tickets and a flight down for startup school after I complained here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=148485
I'm pretty sure that the same can be said about Paul Graham.
Now I don't know if you are saying this because you are really PG in desguise (btw, what've happened to bugbear?) or if you is really you. Damn, stop confusing me! :)
Well, almost. I once saw nickb sneaking into a phone cabin, and pg rushing out shortly after. I reckon I didn't notice the discrepancy; my only thought at the time was "you'd think those guys would have cell phones."
Guys, it's a joke: http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pg
Um, how does that thread show that it's a joke? What am I missing?
In other news: login does appear to be very broken.
The nickb comment in question shows up under pg's posts.
What makes it a joke, exactly? nickb shows up under pg's posts. OK. So he has a sock puppet. That's an April Fool's joke?
he faked it, to trick us. that's the joke. nickb isn't really a sock puppet.
... or so the Germans would have us believe.
Applying Occam's Razor, the simpler explanation is that PG actually does use nickb as a sock puppet, made a mistake, and then attempted to cover it up using April Fool's Day as a convenient excuse.
The chance that the mistake would happen today in particular is what makes it not the simplest explanation. That also wouldn't explain why the comment would appear on pg's comments thread.
Clearly the simplest explanation is that nickb is PG, but an earlier version of himself that had traveled back in time to kill his own grandfather.
Dude, I was just joking. :-)
Damn. Forgot that. Yes, sorry, it's not an April Fools' joke. I am actually nickb.
Or maybe this 'pg' character is an elaborate front for nickb.
The pipe organ fugue should be right about here.
That's just the sort of joke you would make if you really were nickb!
You can not fool me. This is what really is happening: pg IS nickb's SOCKPUPPET! Even in IRL! I figured it out! OMG! Wake up shee...
Ok, enough, I'm loling too hard.
it must be a joke. i looked back at nickb's posts and he mentioned depending on textmate?! no way a vi user would betray the brotherhood, even in puppet form.
Occam's razor? You mean "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity"? So <i>every</i> account here is pg?
Damn. Forgot that. Yes, sorry, it's an April Fools' joke. Thanks, Alex, for helping out. The recent outage (now fixed, let's hope) is unconnected, btw.
What a pity. I had been assuming for a while that nickb was a code for 'nickname b' (where pg was 'nickname a').
pg!!! you admitted it too early!
Nice joke though :)
Personally I think it would have been funnier if it was rms or someone else slightly more controversial :) Before I realised it was a joke I just couldn't understand where you found the time submit so many articles.
I've waited as long as I can stand it before inserting a spoiler:
"In the early 1990s, I was writing a lot of essays and columns for magazines and journals, so much so that I was using a pseudonym for some of that work: Nickieben Bourbaki. The original idea for the name was that my staff at Lucid would help with the writing, and the single pseudonym would represent the collective, much as the French mathematicians in the 1930s used "Nicolas Bourbaki" as their collective name while rewriting the foundations of mathematics in their image. However, no one but I wrote anything under that name."
http://www.dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBetter.html
"The collective" can indeed be prolific. Intriguing.
Dang. It's either that or a whole tonne of French mathematicians. Good work!
I can't take too much credit. I bit on the story hook, line and sinker. I started to write a comment saying in essence, "So what if Paul is writing under a nom de plume, there are good reasons for doing so..."
One of the good examples that came immediately to mind was Richard Gabriel. So I Googled "Worse Is Better" and copied that exact paragraph to insert as a quotation to support my point.
Then I read what I had just pasted and the light went on...
Oh, let me tell you the lead-up there is perfect—serendipitous or otherwise. I had a smooth transition: "Really? That seems pretty interes---- oh man, brilliant!"
This thread makes nickb seem like a real, individual person:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=99923
A word about myself so you can see where I'm coming from... I'm currently part of a startup.
pg comments:
its real purpose is to thank Nickb, and I think he deserves it.
This reminds one time when I first started playing Counter Strike. I found myself alone one night and could finally play CS without anyone bitching, so I indulged late into the night teaming up with this very highly efficient group of players. Their usage of team commands was incredible and I, being a newbie, followed the better players around closely, often being the support gunner. The teamwork was magical and you just felt the chemistry.
After a few hours, I decided to start making small talk. Then, to my horror, I realized I had been playing with bots the entire time.
I just hope the rest of you are real.
Does it please you to just hope the rest of I are real?
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=143143
5 points by nickb 10 days ago | link | parent | on: Articles, Ideas, Books and/or Concepts that have c...
http://www.cypress.com/portal/server.pt?space=CommunityPage&....
reply
2 points by pg 9 days ago | link
That's it! Thanks, Nick. I haven't seen this for 15 years.
reply
Pseudonyms can be used to good effect. Ben Franklin used them extensively. They're especially good for testing out or spreading ideas you'd like to have considered apart from their source.
When I started a small social site, the first thing I did was create 40 nicknames and start talking to myself. Boot-strapping a social site is tough. Most users leave if they see an empty site.
I have an uncle that tried that when he opened a pub. It didn't quite work.
This thing is starting to take on an eerie "Paul is dead" aura.
C.f. the whole thread here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=151461
All I can say is wow. Especially after his most recent essay on intellectual honesty. What bullshit. TechStars is looking better and better all the time.
Chillout. Keep in mind that every website that depends on community activity, starts as a ghost town, with fictional accounts, (which are owned by the creators of the website) that start posting/commenting, to get it jump started, and make new commers feel like there is a reason to stay.
Every single web 2.0 website does this, so I don't think that is dishonest. Maybe Pg. liked the anonimity of his alter ego, nickb, and kept posting on his name, and got carried on (and forgot to switch names). And if you see nickb, stats, he is probably the oldest user in here.
user: nickb created: 406 days ago karma: 10982 about: My email: nickb.yc {at} gmail.
This is the only site where I comment/post. I am not 'nickb' on any other site.
> every website that depends on community activity, starts as a ghost town, with fictional accounts
Apparently, this is very common practice on dating websites.
Yes, dating websites have that, but there is clear maliciousness in that, as they try to make you think somebody is interested on you, so you can fork money. News.yc is not trying to bilk money out of you, or try to play with your emotions. PG using nickb's name (if it is so), might be similiar to countless of writers that user pseudonims on their work. I doesn't make them worse people for doing so.
Anyways, all web 2.0 have gohsts, or test accounts, youtube, friendster (used to have them marked as test), facebook, you name it. and of course, we have Tom of myspace, the most profilic account ever (who lied about his age too). So, what? The value of news.yc is the great submissions and comments comming from everybody, and not just pg, nickb, or whoever else.
Another difference is that dating sites typically "borrow" the images of very hot young ladies. That's certainly a much greater level of deceptiveness.
I used to make and sell software for classified ad management, including personals. There is a loose code of ethics for newspapers: they will post "filler" ads if there aren't enough paying customers, however they never pretend to contact a customer and they maintain custoemr privacy.
For example, one client had filler adverts in their personals section. There was a box number for snail mail replies, and their strict policy was that all replies to the fictitious ads were shredded unopened and unread.
Just an anecdote, no opinion on what is and is not legitimate business...
Just so we're clear on this, I asked Alex to post the above. He's just pretending to be upset.
Somehow I still feel cheated. I'm working on a social news site, and we do not use ghost accounts or fake stats. People still suspect us doing it anyway :( Now I know - they have a good reason to suspect everybody.
For a site like jaanix or reddit (or news.yc), there's no implicit fraud in having lots of ghost accounts, as long as you don't include them in stats to advertisers or whatever. People come for the content, not because others are there.
Unlike reddit or news.yc, jaanix has a recommender that is based on implicit trust between the users. Sock puppets destroy this trust.
Hm. It still seems like consistency would fix that. It would make "doing it right" a little harder, but it could be done with no loss for normal users, I think.
Oh, you asked 'Alex', huh? Come on, we know that you and he are one and the same.
I can think of other explanations including April Fools Day, data corruption and a problematic upgrade which affected accounts and logins. Alteratively, given the essay What You Can't Say ( http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html ) and the recent drop in essay quality, it is possible that some essays are ghost written.
I have evidence that pg has been outsourcing everything, and is now working a 4 hour work week.
Willing to sell this evidence to the highest bidder, but pg has already offered a spot in the next YC round to me. He also is throwing in tickets and a flight down for startup school after I complained here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=148485
Has anyone seen nickb and pg at the same time in the same place?
Has anyone seen nickb, ever?
I have it on good authority that if you come to Startup School in 2-3 weeks from now, you will :)
I'm pretty sure that the same can be said about Paul Graham.
Now I don't know if you are saying this because you are really PG in desguise (btw, what've happened to bugbear?) or if you is really you. Damn, stop confusing me! :)
Well, almost. I once saw nickb sneaking into a phone cabin, and pg rushing out shortly after. I reckon I didn't notice the discrepancy; my only thought at the time was "you'd think those guys would have cell phones."
Now it all makes sense!
He was probably posting from a computer at YC HQ that nickb used before him. You people are like children.
OK, April 1 is over, so which is it?
Either way, great job with the confusion.
nickb is Enoch Root.
oh, snap. pawn3d. I still like him thou, and I liked nickb too.
News.yc "user" nickb is actually a sockpuppet for Paul Graham??
I doubt it.
If it's a joke, why nickb didn't reply in this thread? ;-)
Sorry, was too busy with work... I finally found some time and saw the thread.
Good one, paul.
April Fools?
You guys don't know anything. Chuck_Norris is pg's sock puppet.