Ask HN: Do you use Purism, PinePhone, or Fairphone?
Kicked off by everything happening with Apple, anyone in this community who has tried these different devices? What's your impression? What are the big problems that need solving?
I've seen a lot of people referencing these devices so figured I would ask about firsthand experience.
Yes. I have two PinePhones, a 2GB/16GB, and a 3GB/32GB. I do not regret my purchase at all.
I have a handful of SD cards with various operating systems on, and Full Disk Encrypted eMMC installs.
The blog on http://pine64.org has lots of information about it.
There are issues. Modem drops out sometimes, there aren't enough programs (not apps, these are full desktop Linux programs compiled for aarch64) that work flawlessly on a small screen, updates break the system sometimes.
Most "reviews" expect a polished OS that "just works" when this device isn't ready for daily use unless you're a tinkerer who can spend time bug reporting, searching for answers, reflashing when (not if) things go wrong.
This device should be the future of mobile phones, but it isn't yet.
Get in now. Buy one, help code, help the Wiki, help with ideas.
> Get in now.
I have tried to. All I got was a polite e-mail telling me they're unable to ship to my country (Montenegro).
So you probably should support Librem 5, which ships worldwide.
I'm not willing to pay $1000 for a cell phone no matter how good one is. Phones are portable devices too easy to loose or break.
After I searched a bit, found Volla which I liked a lot, unfortunately they only ship within EU.
there are re-shipping services. they will order for you, receive the package and forward it. they don't work for everything, but they may work for you.
Thanks, but since my last comment I’ve found, an ordered, another model which is hopefully good enough too: https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/hammerhead/
Hardware video is the only missing feature I might be interested in. I wonder do they have support for that in the Linux OS kernel, through V4L2? https://github.com/Const-me/Vrmac/tree/master/VrmacVideo
Congrats, were you switching from an iPhone?
I can recommend checking the postmarketOS wiki for compatibility [1]
If postmarketOS says it's supported, that usually means upstream support - so other distros theoretically can run on the device, too.
[1] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
Dont bother ordering one, I did 3 years ago and it still hasn't shipped
Whatever open source hardware brands survive will have worked out these basic problems. The travails of early adopters.
I have two PinePhones and a Librem 5. I mostly use my 3GB/32GB postmarketOS CE PinePhone, running Arch Linux ARM, as I do blog [0] and try to maintain an app list [1] and testing new features or apps on Arch is just way easier, than on Debian (PureOS, Mobian) or on postmarketOS. The PinePhone is slow, but works mostly fine, so does the Librem 5, which is a tad faster spec wise, but generally feels more smooth.
Sadly, on both devices, the battery life is not what it should be. On the PinePhone, active use trashes the battery (no surprise if you have knowledge of ARM SoCs), but it lasts pretty long if you don't use it too much. With the Librem 5, active use is better, but as long as Purism don't implement a standby mode, 8-11 hours is all you get until you need to find an electrical outlet.
P.S.: I also have the Gigaset hardware that the Volla Phone is derived from, and run Ubuntu Touch on it. It's fine, but it does not run a mainline kernel, so it's a different kind of Linux phone and does not really compare 1:1 to Librem 5 and PinePhone.
[0] https://linmob.net [1] https://linmobapps.frama.io
> [Volla Phone] is fine, but it does not run a mainline kernel, so it's a different kind of Linux phone and does not really compare 1:1 to Librem 5 and PinePhone.
This hardware runs a MediaTek Helio P23, and I don't know of anyone trying to bring mainline support to this or indeed to most MediaTek SoC's. Even the pmOS folks have very limited information on those.
How about a "needs assessment" tool for people switching to the Linux platform?
As I've been switching platforms, there's a lot of scary stuff and lots of unknowns. But once I started digging into what apps I actually use, it's a pretty small list. Some things are easy - like Brave. Other things are tough to replace though (i.e. Messages, Facetime with my family). But getting specific made it less daunting.
> the Librem 5, which is a tad faster spec wise
Actually, Librem 5 is significantly faster: https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p... (see "Reasons to buy").
I'm pretty happy with my Fairphone. I was unfortunate in dropping it once which made the screen unusable, but since you can change the screen yourself it was pretty easy to do. And Fairphone was gracious enough to send me a new screen since it was within one year of me buying the phone.
I'm not a heavy user of the phone day to day so battery lasts easily more than one day.
It's not as snappy as an iPhone. But repairablility makes up for it.
What O/S do you run on it? AIU Fairphone primarily advertises sustainability, but then still uses AOSP out of the box, with however an express policy to open up its bootloader to alternative Android-based OSes and keep warranty, or don't they?
You can buy it with /e/OS preinstalled. But the problem with old kernel will be there I guess: https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3/.
What problem?
Inability to update the Linux kernel due to the proprietary drivers.
Ok, thanks!
Wrt. the Fairphone 3, https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Qualcomm_Snapdragon_450/6... suggests that mainline kernel support is very much WIP at present, but ought to be feasible i.e. there are no obvious roadblocks to full mainline support. (As for Fairphone 2, see https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Qualcomm_Snapdragon_800/8... instead.)
Are there active exploits or is it otherwise much of a problem though? I mean Linux is with us around 30 years, and smartphones 13 years. And the OS updates I had encountered made things worse, eg old Android 5 loosing USB mass storage, iOS 14 a regression in many ways (memory leaks, windows-esque UI, ...)
It's a problem of long-term support. At some point, the old Linux version is not supported anymore and any newly discovered bugs become a problem.
I run /e/os (linageos fork kind of) on my Fairphone 3. It works pretty good. At least I got rid of the feeling that google os watching me. I have no google software on it. I try to use as much FOSS software from F-Droid.
https://e.foundation/
I use Aurora Store for those apps that are closed source and I need. (E.g. the swedish app Bank ID which handles auth and sign for logging into banks and authorities).
Hackerwise I would like to try out PinePhone but as I understand it, it is not really for daily use yet. But I like the kill switches and that it doesn't rely at all on android code base
I'm curious, what's the downside to e/OS or upside to not using it? I see that it's deGoogled. Is there some other concern?
i can't see any downside in /e/. you can even run specific google software if you want that. as far as i know everything works.
Yeah, they were talking about wanting pinephone since it doesn't use android at all. That's why I was wondering what the benefit would be.
The benefit of not relying at all on android code? Well, that would be not having to constantly adjust to what happens in the android code base. If google introduce proprietary code that the os depend on, one would have to create substitutions for that.
But with PinePhone and running e.g. postmarketos, then it's more pure linux and not have to relate to android and google's whims.
But I must say I AM happy with /e/os as a free degoogled android os. But it will still never be as good (or better) than "the real thing". At least that is my main concern
I have some Android apps, so I think e/os will be right up my alley when I finally do switch. Maybe I'll start to upload my apps on some of the 3rd party stores.
also got a fairphone 3 with /e/.
before i had /e/ on a onenote 5t.
the fairphone is a bit weaker than the onenote, and in particular wechat (which i need to use here) gets hit by the OOM killer frequently. (at least that is what i think is causing it to die)
/e/ is just great however. the most polished experience i ever had with an alternative phone OS. (having used sailfish, firefox OS, tizen, lineage...)
i think the OS is actually the more important selection criteria when it comes to privacy.
the fairphone is a nice device, and for how it is built, i think it is worth the price, but if you can't afford it then any other cheaper device with /e/ on it is a decent alternative that gives you just as much privacy.
No, but I want really want to get a Pine phone ,by all accounts it a bit janky to use but I can live with that if it helps push forward an independant mobile phone sector. I have not real faith in Google or the Chinese manufactured mobile phone manufacturers, I did hope Apple would be better after all they declared but clearly not now.
On PC's, desktop and laptop, and mobile devices we need to make a push to Linux or other open source systems if we want to preseve and semblence of privacy and commercial freedom.
According to https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/202005103 FairPhone does not ship to United States, and according to https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047326452 "When it comes to the United States and Canada, 4G(LTE) will not always work..."
The phone and parts can likely still be obtained over eBay or similar.
Has anybody here tried to use Fairphone in the US, and if so, what was your experience, and with which carrier?
I have a PinePhone, but don't really use it. Too many usability bugs, like these:
* the cameras working only in the Megapixels app, * no sound notification about incoming SMS, * poor microphone quality in the calls (to the point that the person on the remote end complains), * the blue LED flashes all the same for all missed notifications, so I don't know if it is an email or a missed call, * there is no way to dismiss the uninteresting notification (e.g. without reading the email).
Which OS are you running on it?
Arch Linux ARM, with Phosh.
None of the above, although I'll dig through the other comments here for inspiration or advice. As a former Nokia N900 devotee I would dearly love to have a well-functioning Linux phone once again. At present, I root my Android phones for use with custom roms or LineageOS thanks to XDA, TWRP, Magisk, Busybox, Termux, etc.
Pure Linux phones are still a bit far from being usable in daily-driver scenarios. The flip side of it though is that a lot of hardware looks like it might be about to gain support, thanks to the likes of postmarketOS upstreaming mainline support for a variety of SoC's and chipsets. You're not limited to PinePhone or Librem phones, these are just the most convenient options.
I bought a PinePhone when they were on sale a few months ago for $150. I tinkered around with it for a few days, but it's just been collecting dust ever since. I kind of expected not to use it as a daily driver since I rely on App/Play Store apps, but it was unusable for a bunch of other reasons like:
- Short battery life, was pretty much drained after maybe 4 hours of light use
- The phone would get insanely hot during use, or while plugged into the charger
- Display bugs, every time the phone rotated from portrait to landscape there were black bars or other artifacts
- Poor performance in general, typing too fast caused latency issues and opening apps really made the phone chug
Overall, I think Linux on mobile just needs some more time in the oven along with access to the hardware market that Android/iOS has been able to use for a while. I could probably deal with not having access to the Google/Apple app ecosystem if the phone itself were a smooth user experience, but that's just not the reality of it yet.
Since it's gathering dust, any chance you would be up for parting with your PinePhone? hnaccount@altmails.com
I have also been researching alternatives to apple. Ran across this review of Volla phone:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=neG2Z21epLI
Anyone tried it?
Using a PinePhone or a Librem 5 phone means using open hardware in addition to an open source operating system. That's not the only option: since Android is also open source, based on a modified Linux kernel, there are Android derivatives, CalyxOS[1] and GrapheneOS[2], that allow (at least partial) access to the Android app ecosystem, but remove Android's nosy bits, i.e. Google Play Services (location services, authentication, sync through Google’s cloud infrastructure, etc.) Both systems require proprietary, closed Google Pixel hardware, but it's unlikely that Google Pixel hardware alone implements mass-surveillance measures such as the Apple/NCMEC initiative. CalyxOS (includes open source MicroG vs. vanilla Google Play Services) seems somewhat more app compatibility -oriented, while GrapheneOS (includes Sandboxed Google Play Services vs. vanilla Google Play Services) seems more security-oriented. There might also be phone performance differences between the two, so it's worth researching further.
[1] https://calyxos.org [2] https://grapheneos.org
I used to have the Jolla phone, running Sailfish OS, which also supports most Android apps via their emulator. I was extremely happy, until the device itself suffered a hardware fault.
I did not make the leap to the only other device now supported by Sailfish (which I think is the old Xperia model) because my work had ready provided me with a backup phone, so now I'm back on Android.
Ordered a PinePhone after Apple announced they would be scanning my meme collection for counter-narrative content. Eagerly waiting.
I had a fairphone 2 for just under 5 years. It was good. A couple of quirks but overall very happy with it. Replaced the modular usb port component myself a couple of years in when the connection got a bit dodgy. Bluetooth was quite a bit worse compared to my new smartphone (Google pixel)
I could have made it last a bit longer by replacing the battery, but I was about to start a new job and knew I needed a reliable phone, so I wasn't sure it was worth investing keeping the fairphone going.
I live in India and I've only used a device running Sailfish OS 3-5 years back.
The OS is (was?) amazing. Lightweight, no BS tracking things AFAIK. Unfortunately, the Indian device vendor's deal didn't last enough and with the declining battery efficiency, I had to switch to an Asus phone running Android 9.
If I could get my hands on a low-cost Sailfish OS device running Indian bands, I will happily jump on-board again.
Try purchasing a one- or two-year old Xperia, you might end up getting more performance and life for your rupee while being able to run Sailfish.
I've got a pinephone. It's still more of an interesting novelty to me rather than my main phone, because it's just Linux apps running on a small device. Battery life is an issue, I have an issue where if the phone puts itself into suspend it won't take calls and such.
But I paid a couple of hundred bucks for something I knew was going to be in a beta state, so I'm not choked up over my purchase
I've been looking into both Sailfish and Graphene OS, trying to decide what to go for and selling my 12 Pro Max.
Pretty happy with my Pinephone. It's not 100% reliable, but I still use it as a daily driver and enjoy the freedom it gives. Waiting for the ordered Librem 5, which will be even faster.
Been running Fairphone 3 for a while now. It's a really decent phone with easy battery access and that's exactly why I bought it.
Would be so nice if this kind of design becomes the norm.
GrapheneOS.org for full feature parity today.
What app do you use on PinePhone for encrypted video calls with people who use iOS? Does PinePhone run Signal?
If anyone here has a used PinePhone gathering dust, I'm interested! hnaccount@altmails.com