points by thesuitonym 2 years ago

Good points have already been raised, but don't neglect the rise of smartphones. When you get a Google phone that already has Google's browser installed, and it works relatively well, why would you change? Add Chromebooks into the mix, and those meet a lot of people's needs, why change?

Then, if you get a laptop, you'll want to have all of your passwords and bookmarks synced, so instead of using Edge, you grab Chrome. never even thinking of Firefox.

Finally, in the early 00's, Firefox users had a reputation for letting you know about it. Forums of the day were full of signatures with a Get Firefox link in them. You don't really see that level of fervor anymore, because the difference between Firefox and Chrome today is nowhere near the difference between Firefox and IE back then.

damnesian 2 years ago

I am a developer on a team of developers for a large data and interaction-rich website and we've watched the stats morph over the past 8 years from 23% mobile to 23% desktop. It's been a very swift revolution. I do a lot of QA on my phone now. I have been a Firefox proponent for at least ten years and resolved to do most of my QA on FF since I was most familiar with its features. Something that is very irksome about iOS is I can't suppress ads on Firefox on ios but I can on Safari. So Safari has become my main mobile browser. I'd love to keep pushing FF into the future- and still use it as my main desktop browser- but I can't advocate its use at least on iOS because of the ads issue.

  • harpiaharpyja 2 years ago

    You can't use uBlock Origin on iOS?

    • wiseowise 2 years ago

      No extensions.

      • darklion 2 years ago

        Oh for fuck’s sake. Safari has had extensions since 2010, and uBlock Origin supported it until 2018.

        The problem vis-a-vis uBO that in 2018, Safari switched its extension framework. It no longer supports the WebExtensions framework, instead using a native (proprietary) implementation. The new framework requires extensions to be packaged as apps, and is less featureful in terms of what extensions can do and access than the older framework. Consequently, uBlock Origin decided not to support the new extension framework (https://github.com/el1t/uBlock-Safari/issues/158).

    • vasili111 2 years ago

      Not the extensions but you can use Brave browser that has its own built-in ad blocker.

    • Vrondi 2 years ago

      Every time I have even the slightest mild thought of trying iOS again, I learn something like this which ensures I will not do it.

      • rekabis 2 years ago

        You can adblock at the DNS level using the AdGuard DNS plug-in for iOS. Not an app: it’s a system plug-in - https://adguard.com/en/blog/encrypted-dns-ios-14.html. It’s extremely effective across all apps that use third-party supplied ads. The only apps it cannot adblock on are those who serve up ads from the same source as their content, such as Pinterest and YouTube.

    • markx2 2 years ago

      nextdns.io works very well on iOS.

      I use it on desktop/laptop also and have added many rules - on my profile/account at nextdns.io - with no issues.

      It is very much worth a look.

      • mahathu 2 years ago

        Is using this for your DNS a privacy issue?

      • unnervingduck 2 years ago

        It's great and I use it on mobile as well, but the lack of cosmetic filtering still makes uBlock Origin a winner. Can't really implement that with anything except extensions.

    • rekabis 2 years ago

      No. But you can block third-party ads on all apps that display them by using the AdGuard DNS plug-in for iOS. Not an app - it’s a system plug-in: https://adguard.com/en/blog/encrypted-dns-ios-14.html. It’s extremely effective across all apps that use third-party supplied ads. The only apps it cannot adblock on are those who serve up ads from the same source as their content, such as Pinterest and YouTube.

  • elashri 2 years ago

    Any browser on iOS is just a skin of safari, as all browsers on iOS must use the safari webview in the backend. Apple doesn't allow these browsers to use safari extensions.

    • Klonoar 2 years ago

      I mean, since iOS 11 you can apply a WKContentRuleList to a WKWebView. It's not like some form of ad blocking can't exist on Firefox for iOS.

      • beagle3 2 years ago

        There’s Firefox Focus which blocks many ads (also works as a blocker for safari)

  • Saphyel 2 years ago

    your problem is not FF, it's the iphone, replace your phone and you'll have the browser you want with the extensions you want. Don't blame the innocents.

  • gloryjulio 2 years ago

    How could u not know that all ios browsers are just reskins of Safari if u r a developer? So ios devices are not even in the discussion

floren 2 years ago

> When you get a Google phone that already has Google's browser installed, and it works relatively well, why would you change?

I know you're speaking in the context of the general public, but I've found that uBlock on Firefox Mobile does so much to make the web usable again that I'd never go without it.

  • frostiness 2 years ago

    On the other hand, as someone on an old android device, the performance difference between the two is massive and it isn't getting better. Some sites (usually the ones that are actually important such as restaurant menu) are perfect on Chrome and nearly unusable on Firefox, even with an adblocker.

    Performance already matters a lot on desktop browsers, but when battery life is thrown into the mix, it matters even more.

    • fooker 2 years ago

      It's a bit perplexing to me that Firefox proponents keep denying performance issues for years.

      You can just compare it yourself or look at the some of the zillion benchmarks.

      • genocidicbunny 2 years ago

        Are they...issues?

        Like, I frankly couldn't care less if Chrome is capable of running some funky JS that is mainly used on sites that I don't visit a bit faster, or is capable of rendering some css animation that I would honestly prefer died in a fire a bit faster.

        • fooker 2 years ago

          They aren't if the goal is having a Firefox useful to you.

          They are, if the goal is to figure out why Firefox market share has plummeted. People do care about `funky` websites being faster.

          The modern web has immensely useful software which a good fraction of web users depend on that are rendered unusable on Firefox once in a while.

          • genocidicbunny 2 years ago

            I don't disagree, I'm just trying to address the incredulity that perhaps for some people, Firefox might not have problems, or (gasp!) for some, Chrome might be the one with problems.

            • fooker 2 years ago

              I'd argue that the market share reflects the ratio of these two `some`s.

              Unfortunately the party with the deeper pocket tends to win in these cases as long as they care to.

              • genocidicbunny 2 years ago

                Which is why it's even more frustrating when Mozilla ends up wasting a bunch of money on some boondoggle or other. They don't have the warchest Google has, they need to be smarter with how they spend their limited resources, especially since their income is proportional to their market share.

    • happymellon 2 years ago

      How old? My S10e isn't very new and FF works great.

      • frostiness 2 years ago

        It's an S7. Though newer phones probably don't have as noticeable performance issues, it still indicates that the browser's going to use more power even if the performance is fine.

    • genocidicbunny 2 years ago

      I know it's just anecdata, but on my 2 year old phone, Firefox+Adblock+NoScript uses about 33% less power than the stock Chrome. I grant that my browsing habits aren't such that I tend to use a lot of media-heavy sites in the first place, so perhaps on those I wouldn't see such savings.

      • frostiness 2 years ago

        I do the same, and honestly it's why I still use Firefox on mobile at all. But stock Firefox (which is what most people use anyways) has clear issues.

        • genocidicbunny 2 years ago

          Which I think further speaks to my point I made elsewhere in this thread, that a huge part of the problem is that the web itself is shittier. Chrome can just handle that shittiness a bit better by default.

          I would love to see a comparison of Firefox vs Chrome with the same set of uBlock and NoScript rules applied to both. I suspect Chrome would probably still win, but perhaps the gap won't be as big.

NoboruWataya 2 years ago

> Finally, in the early 00's, Firefox users had a reputation for letting you know about it. Forums of the day were full of signatures with a Get Firefox link in them. You don't really see that level of fervor anymore, because the difference between Firefox and Chrome today is nowhere near the difference between Firefox and IE back then.

I agree that is probably the main reason - but another is simply that we don't have signatures anymore. So many of those forums were replaced by Reddit and other platforms which don't have signatures. One could argue they were a waste of screen estate but they allowed users to share a bit of their personality (including, in some cases, their choice of browser/OS) with readers in a non-awkward way.

  • jareklupinski 2 years ago

    > a waste of screen estate but they allowed users to share a bit of their personality

    somewhere there is a powerpoint with a slide that boils down to 'think about all the banner ads we can show in the wasted space where sigs live today!'

  • OkayPhysicist 2 years ago

    This is something I somewhat miss about the old forums. Between signatures and avatars, it was much easier to keep track of who you're talking to. Reddit-esque forums, this one included, have de-emphasized user identity to the point of homogeneity.

winternett 2 years ago

FireFox doesn't synch with saved passwords that Chrome has.. Remembering tons of passwords across many sites, and having to do TFA all over again is excruciatingly painful. This is how people get locked in to so many monopolies today, and probably why log-ins are so difficult overall, yet still not working very well to secure accounts.

There is too much hassle in software these days, it used to be about making your life easier, but so many companies put out products contradictory to that, creating entirely new problems.

A web browser is just like a TV pretty much. People don't really care about what the brand is, they care about reliability, picture quality, compatibility, features etc... FireFox is like buying into a whole other TV before your current one is broken.

Firefox could jump ahead if it radically changed how we can view painful web sites, like turning a video blog page into a convenient scroller, by adding tools to categorize and search bookmarks, or possibly by letting us block the display of keywords we don't want to see. They should also perhaps create their own search engine to counter Google's strangle hold... By turning FF into more of an Internet assistant, it would become a far superior web TV than Chrome, and that would likely encourage wider adoption perhaps...

  • happymellon 2 years ago

    I dont use browser password saving, but I just looked and FF syncs passwords.

  • BizarroLand 2 years ago

    Firefox does sync if you sign in. Extensions, history, the works.

    • sigsergv 2 years ago

      And if you don't trust mozilla sync service you can connect your own.

  • rekabis 2 years ago

    Stealing passwords from browser password vaults is trivial these days for most any malware, which is why password managers like BitWarden have become much more popular. And those can sync across browsers and systems much more reliably.

the_snooze 2 years ago

>When you get a Google phone that already has Google's browser installed, and it works relatively well, why would you change?

I seem to recall Microsoft getting some unfavorable government attention when they did something similar in the 90s...

  • supertrope 2 years ago

    The key being they had a near monopoly in the operating system market. The smartphone OS market is a duopoly.