Did quick research on how to support the bacteria growth
> Dietary modifications that emphasize high-fiber and prebiotic foods and dietary supplements may support the healthy growth of Roseburia [1]
> As stated above, a Mediterranean diet is associated with increased Roseburia growth. This diet emphasizes primarily plant-based foods: whole fruits and vegetables, whole grains, legumes, nuts and seeds, olive oil, and fatty fish. The high fiber and resistant starch content of these foods may fuel Roseburia and the other beneficial flora of the human microbiome [1]
> Polyphenols are plant compounds abundant in fruits, vegetables, tea, and coffee. Emerging research indicates that polyphenols can enhance Roseburia abundance indirectly by inhibiting harmful bacteria and fostering beneficial ones. [2]
I wish scientists would be more open about how little they understand digestion and nutrition, particularly on an individual level. Advice gets presented as an if-then, when it's not.
If you have a complaint against "scientists" as hsme homogenous group, I think I'm going to have to ask you to explain how these particular scientists did not do that, and why you would think this is a problem of scientists (a label for a largelt disparate group not connected through any specific communication or hierarchy and mostly in output) in general?
Nutrition researchers know a lot about diet. Or at least what constitutes a good diet.
The reason you think “they don’t know” is a media ecosystem that hypes weak minor contrary results that usually disappear in further research and an entrenched trillion dollar food industry that spreads misinformation to get you to continue eating the foods they sell that have the highest markups, such as processed foods, meat and dairy.
It is known that the bacteria that produce high amount of butyrate are beneficial, e.g. by decreasing the risk of colon cancer, but this does not seem sufficient to explain the increase in muscle strength that seems to be caused by this species alone.
The study has first found in humans a correlation between muscle strength and the presence of this bacterium. Then they have attempted to determine whether this correlation is due to a causal relationship by killing the gut bacteria in mice, then feeding them with this kind of human gut bacteria. The result was an increased muscle strength, which seems to confirm causality.
How the bacteria increase muscle strength remains unknown. I think that a possible explanation may be that this bacterium produces some substance that mimics a human hormone, e.g. a steroid, in which case it would be a kind of natural doping.
All fiber-consuming gut bacteria, yes - but that's basically synonymous with "good"/beneficial gut bacteria, so it's good advice even if it doesn't give people the massive gainz they might have been hoping for.
It can be, but it's often not. The thing that makes hamburgers harmful isn't really the "chemicals" or processing or whatever, it's the fact that it's red meat with high amounts of saturated fat.
You would have to use low fat beef, and ideally not beef but turkey.
I think some people think that burgers, fries, steak, and milkshakes are bad for you because they're fast food or restaurant food. No... no that stuff is just bad for you. You'll get a heart attack if you make it at home, too. Just eat it in moderation and eat more vegetables.
IMHO it's the restaurant. For a variety of reasons but here's just one example of a mechanic:
> Repeatedly heated cooking oils (RCO) can generate varieties of compounds, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH), some of which have been reported as carcinogenic. RCO is one of the commonly consumed cooking and frying medium. These RCO consumption and inhalation of cooking fumes can pose a serious health hazard.
Nutrition is complicated and rules of thumb can be really useful even if they sometimes over simplify things. One good rule that has had a ton of research interest into it in the past decade or so is ultra-processed foods. Here's a BMJ review
> Greater exposure to ultra-processed food was associated with a higher risk of adverse health outcomes, especially cardiometabolic, common mental disorder, and mortality outcomes. These findings provide a rationale to develop and evaluate the effectiveness of using population based and public health measures to target and reduce dietary exposure to ultra-processed foods for improved human health. They also inform and provide support for urgent mechanistic research.
"chemicals" (however those are defined) are bad for you, but unhealthy food is still unhealthy even if it's natural. The naturalism fallacy is just that, a fallacy.
Hamburgers aren't bad because chemicals. They're bad mostly because they're super high in calories, saturated fat, and red meat. All of those are going to contribute to heart disease, metabolic syndrome, diabetes, obesity, etc.
UPF are bad for you, yes. Not necessarily because of the processing, but rather because MOST UPF is unhealthy. That does not mean that non-UPF is magically healthy.
If you deconstruct an UPF and eat it's components, it's still unhealthy. Oreos are bad for you because it's sugar and empty calories. Not because they were made in a factory. If you just take a spoonful of sugar and eat that, that's still bad for you.
I agree that rules of thumb can be good. Here's a simple one:
> This opens up the possibility that the bacterium under investigation could be used as a probiotic to help preserve muscle strength during aging
Maybe, but it's really hard to control for other variables here. They don't know what's causing this bacteria to diminish over time in older adults in the first place.
It could totally just be dietary habits getting worse over time as people let themselves go. Regardless of age, most people already don't eat enough protein and when they do they might not be getting "complete" proteins either (missing amino acids is common with plant-based foods).
For me personally, as I've gotten older I have continued to eat better and more consistently than I ever did earlier in life. I think the long term study of your own life tends to show you that diet is one of, if not the, primary factor in short and long term health and well being.
That's why they followed up with an actual experiment with mice, where they found that just adding the bacteria made them stronger.
Of course we won't know for sure before doing human experiments, but it'd be an odd coincidence if we saw the correlation in humans and causation in mice, but there was no causation in humans.
Beer is basically fermented sugar (well, glucose converted to ethanol by yeast, for the most part; though its maltose first, yeast, bacteria etc... prefer glucose and maltose is a disaccharide of glucose: Maltose).
Pretty sure Duff was a heavily filtered macro beer.
Not saying engineered beer is necessarily bad- Sapporo and Asahi never disappoint- but I imagine you would want to stick to unfiltered and unpasteurized to retain some of the more… alive compounds.
They have found first a correlation between the presence of this species of bacteria and muscle strength in humans.
Then they have made an attempt to determine whether this correlation reflects a causal relationship.
So they have fed mice previously treated with antibiotics, to remove their own gut bacteria, with this kind of bacteria extracted from humans.
They have indeed seen an increase in muscular strength at the mice that have received the human bacteria, which seems to confirm causality between the presence of this bacterium and muscle strength.
While they have also determined the biochemical changes in muscles that have caused increased strength, the mechanism of how the bacteria have influenced that remains a mystery. Perhaps this bacterium produces some substance that mimics a human hormone, e.g. a steroid.
If we wanted to we could either make super mice. Or have a great head start on really unethical but impressive human health progress… that just comes from all the horrible human testing that would be necessary.
This is why I tell my gym bros that they should quit all that Celsius garbage and stick to the basics. You should measure your gut health by the quality of your feces (consistency, texture, colour, shape), and then your muscles and rest of your body will thank you. This research is evidence of that. The science is still catching up.
Fun fact: in Germany most toilets have a built in 'inspection plate' so you can look at your shit before you flush it. In other places I often found it hard to judge the quality because you can't even see it well or it gets flushed instantly
It's not sugar, they use synthetic sweeteners. I started getting gout symptoms after picking up a Celsius habit, then quit that without making any other changes, and the symptoms went away.
It's literally in the bowl you were just sitting in. I'm not sure where the inspection plate goes. Is this an AI saying this? Is the rest of the thread AIs? Is this all made up. What's happening!?
I thought learning about bidets was a new experience, now inspection plates?!
It is so wonderful to hear someone else say this. My spouse and friends think In so weird for emphasizing optimizing your diet for things that digest well, macro dense and give you good shits. I am quietly pleased when my own looks completely normal and uninteresting.
Perhaps there is also a direct correlation between this microbiome and longevity in the so-called "blue zones" of the world like Okinawa, Sardinia etc.
IIRC there are several of the "Blue Zones" where just bad government records. (People who had incorrect birth dates, or had already died and the government just didn't know about it)
Jose DeSanquin Demarco of Bolivia is now the world’s oldest man at 117, he attributes his health to 10 hours daily in the sun and fields farming quinoa.
Photographed here, Jose’s 90 year old wife holds their newborn twins.
my only credential is a bio-eng degree, but i read a lot and hope to put together a novel or something to get ppl thinking about it, until we can find a way to test the hypothesis
The symbiotic relationship between Humans and their resident Microbiome (especially the gut microbiome) is already a well-studied subject. But it can certainly do with more popularization :-)
5) The Second Brain: A Groundbreaking New Understanding of Nervous Disorders of the Stomach and Intestine by Michael Gershon. This is a must-read neuro-psychology book.
6) Gut: The inside story of our body’s most under-rated organ by Giulia Enders. Another must-read book.
7) Finally; i came to know (have not browsed/read) of this definitive textbook Fundamentals of Microbiome Science: How Microbes Shape Animal Biology by Angela Douglas (via her Microbiomes: A Very Short Introduction Oxford series book) - https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691160344/fu...
yes! i'm hoping to understand more about the beginning of this co-existence, to maybe better work out ways to make their metabolism interact with ours in more helpful ways, will start that list from 7 backwards :) ty!
Deep insights into the gut microbial community of extreme longevity in south Chinese centenarians by ultra-deep metagenomics and large-scale culturomics - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41522-022-00282-3
Every few months there's a new study showing gut bacteria control yet another thing we thought was "us." Mood, cognition, immune response, and now muscle strength. Starting to wonder what's even left.
Did quick research on how to support the bacteria growth
> Dietary modifications that emphasize high-fiber and prebiotic foods and dietary supplements may support the healthy growth of Roseburia [1]
> As stated above, a Mediterranean diet is associated with increased Roseburia growth. This diet emphasizes primarily plant-based foods: whole fruits and vegetables, whole grains, legumes, nuts and seeds, olive oil, and fatty fish. The high fiber and resistant starch content of these foods may fuel Roseburia and the other beneficial flora of the human microbiome [1]
> Polyphenols are plant compounds abundant in fruits, vegetables, tea, and coffee. Emerging research indicates that polyphenols can enhance Roseburia abundance indirectly by inhibiting harmful bacteria and fostering beneficial ones. [2]
[1] https://www.rupahealth.com/post/roseburia-spp-101
[2] https://www.innerbuddies.com/pages/gut-microbiome-101/gut-ba...
Thanks for the dietary info! Helps make it concrete.
tl;dr They don't know.
I wish scientists would be more open about how little they understand digestion and nutrition, particularly on an individual level. Advice gets presented as an if-then, when it's not.
If you have a complaint against "scientists" as hsme homogenous group, I think I'm going to have to ask you to explain how these particular scientists did not do that, and why you would think this is a problem of scientists (a label for a largelt disparate group not connected through any specific communication or hierarchy and mostly in output) in general?
Nutrition researchers know a lot about diet. Or at least what constitutes a good diet.
The reason you think “they don’t know” is a media ecosystem that hypes weak minor contrary results that usually disappear in further research and an entrenched trillion dollar food industry that spreads misinformation to get you to continue eating the foods they sell that have the highest markups, such as processed foods, meat and dairy.
It works by converting fibers into butyrate. You should maintain a high fiber diet to promote Roseburia in your gut
It is known that the bacteria that produce high amount of butyrate are beneficial, e.g. by decreasing the risk of colon cancer, but this does not seem sufficient to explain the increase in muscle strength that seems to be caused by this species alone.
The study has first found in humans a correlation between muscle strength and the presence of this bacterium. Then they have attempted to determine whether this correlation is due to a causal relationship by killing the gut bacteria in mice, then feeding them with this kind of human gut bacteria. The result was an increased muscle strength, which seems to confirm causality.
How the bacteria increase muscle strength remains unknown. I think that a possible explanation may be that this bacterium produces some substance that mimics a human hormone, e.g. a steroid, in which case it would be a kind of natural doping.
Natural or otherwise, one must wonder if there are similar downsides.
True.
I've always eaten a ton of fiber, to the point where if I stop I get constipated, and I've always put on muscle fairly easily.
the fiber will promote all bacteria in your gut, not just this particular strain.
All fiber-consuming gut bacteria, yes - but that's basically synonymous with "good"/beneficial gut bacteria, so it's good advice even if it doesn't give people the massive gainz they might have been hoping for.
You know it would be funny if at least once the finding would be "you should eat more hamburgers" or something.
A home made hamburger can be incredibly healthy.
It can be, but it's often not. The thing that makes hamburgers harmful isn't really the "chemicals" or processing or whatever, it's the fact that it's red meat with high amounts of saturated fat.
You would have to use low fat beef, and ideally not beef but turkey.
I think some people think that burgers, fries, steak, and milkshakes are bad for you because they're fast food or restaurant food. No... no that stuff is just bad for you. You'll get a heart attack if you make it at home, too. Just eat it in moderation and eat more vegetables.
IMHO it's the restaurant. For a variety of reasons but here's just one example of a mechanic:
> Repeatedly heated cooking oils (RCO) can generate varieties of compounds, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH), some of which have been reported as carcinogenic. RCO is one of the commonly consumed cooking and frying medium. These RCO consumption and inhalation of cooking fumes can pose a serious health hazard.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28925728/
Nutrition is complicated and rules of thumb can be really useful even if they sometimes over simplify things. One good rule that has had a ton of research interest into it in the past decade or so is ultra-processed foods. Here's a BMJ review
> Greater exposure to ultra-processed food was associated with a higher risk of adverse health outcomes, especially cardiometabolic, common mental disorder, and mortality outcomes. These findings provide a rationale to develop and evaluate the effectiveness of using population based and public health measures to target and reduce dietary exposure to ultra-processed foods for improved human health. They also inform and provide support for urgent mechanistic research.
https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj-2023-077310
"chemicals" (however those are defined) are bad for you, but unhealthy food is still unhealthy even if it's natural. The naturalism fallacy is just that, a fallacy.
Hamburgers aren't bad because chemicals. They're bad mostly because they're super high in calories, saturated fat, and red meat. All of those are going to contribute to heart disease, metabolic syndrome, diabetes, obesity, etc.
UPF are bad for you, yes. Not necessarily because of the processing, but rather because MOST UPF is unhealthy. That does not mean that non-UPF is magically healthy.
If you deconstruct an UPF and eat it's components, it's still unhealthy. Oreos are bad for you because it's sugar and empty calories. Not because they were made in a factory. If you just take a spoonful of sugar and eat that, that's still bad for you.
I agree that rules of thumb can be good. Here's a simple one:
- eat more greens, eat less meat
Comparatively? Sure. In absolute terms though, it's always gonna be bread and red meat.
If you go to Somalia I'd bet most of those would be healthier if they started eating more hamburgers, so its context dependent.
So.. eat more fiber and your gut bacteria will produce butyrate. And that helps muscles.
Eat some apples and add 10lb to your bench. Nice!
Active cultures are available[0] and there is certainly a way to make them available to the gut isn’t there?
0. https://webshop.dsmz.de/en/bacteria/Roseburia-inulinivorans....
Neisseria gonorrhoeae doesn't even have muscles but it can pull 100,000x its own weight
> This opens up the possibility that the bacterium under investigation could be used as a probiotic to help preserve muscle strength during aging
Maybe, but it's really hard to control for other variables here. They don't know what's causing this bacteria to diminish over time in older adults in the first place.
It could totally just be dietary habits getting worse over time as people let themselves go. Regardless of age, most people already don't eat enough protein and when they do they might not be getting "complete" proteins either (missing amino acids is common with plant-based foods).
For me personally, as I've gotten older I have continued to eat better and more consistently than I ever did earlier in life. I think the long term study of your own life tends to show you that diet is one of, if not the, primary factor in short and long term health and well being.
That's why they followed up with an actual experiment with mice, where they found that just adding the bacteria made them stronger.
Of course we won't know for sure before doing human experiments, but it'd be an odd coincidence if we saw the correlation in humans and causation in mice, but there was no causation in humans.
Roseburia inulinivorans probiotic when? Probably add it to the premade protein shakes and mix specific to those building muscle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseburia_inulinivorans
Well... assuming this article is just shilling, soon.
Will people really go after Tom Brady's stuff now? xD
So Homer Simpson was right in the end.
Beer is basically fermented sugar (well, glucose converted to ethanol by yeast, for the most part; though its maltose first, yeast, bacteria etc... prefer glucose and maltose is a disaccharide of glucose: Maltose).
Pretty sure Duff was a heavily filtered macro beer.
Not saying engineered beer is necessarily bad- Sapporo and Asahi never disappoint- but I imagine you would want to stick to unfiltered and unpasteurized to retain some of the more… alive compounds.
No beer has nothing to do with Roseburia genus bacteria
>So Homer Simpson was right in the end.
Indeed. Proof that beer builds gut strength: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrrEzyKXUnk>
I need this
My gym bros gonna be so shocked lol
...in mice. :/
Maybe we need to flip it and start testing new mouse drugs on Humans?
We need deeper research into mouse bites as medicine.
More mouse bites!
The mouse lobby rears its [tiny] head again
Unironically, SMBC is one of the two most important philosophical treatise in modern western culture: https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2881
As always. But it's a first step.
The reflex “in mice” meme has been annoying for quite some time.
It is not that simple.
They have found first a correlation between the presence of this species of bacteria and muscle strength in humans.
Then they have made an attempt to determine whether this correlation reflects a causal relationship.
So they have fed mice previously treated with antibiotics, to remove their own gut bacteria, with this kind of bacteria extracted from humans.
They have indeed seen an increase in muscular strength at the mice that have received the human bacteria, which seems to confirm causality between the presence of this bacterium and muscle strength.
While they have also determined the biochemical changes in muscles that have caused increased strength, the mechanism of how the bacteria have influenced that remains a mystery. Perhaps this bacterium produces some substance that mimics a human hormone, e.g. a steroid.
Paywalled research article: https://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2026/03/03/gutjnl-2025-336...
So, literally, "Bacteria found in the human intestine capable of improving muscle strength in mice" then.
If we wanted to we could either make super mice. Or have a great head start on really unethical but impressive human health progress… that just comes from all the horrible human testing that would be necessary.
Gym bros are going to be eating their own faeces for the gainz.
This is why I tell my gym bros that they should quit all that Celsius garbage and stick to the basics. You should measure your gut health by the quality of your feces (consistency, texture, colour, shape), and then your muscles and rest of your body will thank you. This research is evidence of that. The science is still catching up.
Celsius?
Corrected, thank you.
What do you mean by celcius garbage?
Fun fact: in Germany most toilets have a built in 'inspection plate' so you can look at your shit before you flush it. In other places I often found it hard to judge the quality because you can't even see it well or it gets flushed instantly
I meant Celsius, a popular energy drink in the US, but more generally that and the processed foods people take in for some supposed performance gains.
It’s gross sugar water. I accidentally bought some once and years later I found out people are intentionally drinking it.
It's not sugar, they use synthetic sweeteners. I started getting gout symptoms after picking up a Celsius habit, then quit that without making any other changes, and the symptoms went away.
You’re right. I misplaced sweet for sugar.
Yes. Overly sweetened with chemicals.
I always wondered if the "inspection plate" was really for inspection or some side-effect of plumbing or something
One explanation I heard is “helps save water when flushing”
I assume they existed to prevent backsplash.
it also helps avoid Neptune's kiss
It's literally in the bowl you were just sitting in. I'm not sure where the inspection plate goes. Is this an AI saying this? Is the rest of the thread AIs? Is this all made up. What's happening!?
I thought learning about bidets was a new experience, now inspection plates?!
I thought I understood this part of my life.
scared and confused
It's just different shapes of toilets. There's a part without water directly under you, and then when you flush it's flooded.
Just do a quick search for German toilet and you'll see.
There are no AIs here, only gains.
"Bro, take a look at my poop"
It is so wonderful to hear someone else say this. My spouse and friends think In so weird for emphasizing optimizing your diet for things that digest well, macro dense and give you good shits. I am quietly pleased when my own looks completely normal and uninteresting.
Perhaps there is also a direct correlation between this microbiome and longevity in the so-called "blue zones" of the world like Okinawa, Sardinia etc.
We are what we eat.
Some of the blue zones were disproven, due to falsified documentation or lack of it.
IIRC there are several of the "Blue Zones" where just bad government records. (People who had incorrect birth dates, or had already died and the government just didn't know about it)
Jose DeSanquin Demarco of Bolivia is now the world’s oldest man at 117, he attributes his health to 10 hours daily in the sun and fields farming quinoa.
Photographed here, Jose’s 90 year old wife holds their newborn twins.
> We are what we eat.
putting together a theory on how bacteria organized multicellular life to exploit our macro-movements and proliferate between damp spots
Do you mean you work in this domain and are working on the above theory?
my only credential is a bio-eng degree, but i read a lot and hope to put together a novel or something to get ppl thinking about it, until we can find a way to test the hypothesis
The symbiotic relationship between Humans and their resident Microbiome (especially the gut microbiome) is already a well-studied subject. But it can certainly do with more popularization :-)
Some References:
1) Role of the Microbiome in Human Development - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6580755/
2) Human Microbiome Project - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Microbiome_Project
3) The Human Microbiome Project: Exploring the microbial part of ourselves in a changing world - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3709439/
4) The Human Microbiome: From Symbiosis to Pathogenesis - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3731629/
5) The Second Brain: A Groundbreaking New Understanding of Nervous Disorders of the Stomach and Intestine by Michael Gershon. This is a must-read neuro-psychology book.
6) Gut: The inside story of our body’s most under-rated organ by Giulia Enders. Another must-read book.
7) Finally; i came to know (have not browsed/read) of this definitive textbook Fundamentals of Microbiome Science: How Microbes Shape Animal Biology by Angela Douglas (via her Microbiomes: A Very Short Introduction Oxford series book) - https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691160344/fu...
yes! i'm hoping to understand more about the beginning of this co-existence, to maybe better work out ways to make their metabolism interact with ours in more helpful ways, will start that list from 7 backwards :) ty!
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8061703/ is around where i started, some time after learning about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-brewery_syndrome
Addendum to my above thought,
Roseburia also seems to correlate with longevity;
The Gut Microbiome, Aging, and Longevity: A Systematic Review - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7762384/
Deep insights into the gut microbial community of extreme longevity in south Chinese centenarians by ultra-deep metagenomics and large-scale culturomics - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41522-022-00282-3
GAINS
No grain no gain
Every few months there's a new study showing gut bacteria control yet another thing we thought was "us." Mood, cognition, immune response, and now muscle strength. Starting to wonder what's even left.
And yet, still no serious fixes for any of it that aren’t just jabronis pitching overpriced and ineffective supplements.
Recommendation #1 is almost always "eat a healthy, varied diet high in vegetables, fiber, etc". Pretty f'in straightforward if you ask me.
Yes, I think some people are waiting for doctors to tell them that they can eat hamburgers and drink milkshakes and be healthy.
Remember when Mom said to eat your vegetables? Turns out she was right.