>3D in 2D in 3D. OpenGL clients can use GLX rendering over X11. Compatibility varies, as it did in the 2000s.
Made me chuckle. I think at one point in my life I actually knew which exact GL versions and features were working on which servers. Also it's pretty cool.
why not? Personally, I tried but the crap with my prescription because I wear glasses was too much, so I didn't end up getting one because I fail at executive function.
The Apple Lisa was introduced at around $10k (~$32k in today’s dollars). I do agree it is expensive but not historically out of line for a version one of a new product category for the company.
And thousands of Lisas went unsold, eventually getting dumped in a landfill after failing to find an eager audience like the Apple II enjoyed. There's a lesson, there.
Without the Lisa we wouldn’t have the Mac. The Vision Pro is a first gen of a new product category for Apple and I fully expect whatever comes from it will be very different than what we have today.
The Mac arrived one year and five days after the Lisa. Vision Pro is over two years old now. It got a speed bump, but not a price decrease.
I think the Vision Pro will be more like the Newton vs current iPads. Something will eventually replace it, but it will be significantly different, not slightly different, like Lisa vs Mac (I know they cut corners for the Mac, changing some nice OS features)
Without the NeXt Cube, we wouldn’t have the modern MacOS, or, for that matter, the iPhone (or Vision). Apple would certainly not be a multi-trillion-dollar company, and the Cube was a commercial flop.
In that case, it wasn’t the hardware, but the operating system and app development framework that made the difference.
Still expensive, for a devkit. $1,750 would buy me a new in-box Pimax Crystal, or likely a Steam Frame with enough money left over to afford a Steam Deck.
Vision Pro just doesn't have the content to justify that price. I use VR for flight simming, but even at half-off the Vision Pro looks like one of the worst immersive headsets money can buy.
im an apple enjoyer with disposable income, i bought because my brother worked on the foveated rendering, but goddamn it’s so heavy that if i use for >2hrs i’ll have neck pain for >2 days. it’s neat and fantastic for chores and cooking if i wear for 30min at a time but super impractical for me to actually use if im not speed running exactly one task
I've been interested in VR for a while and would be interested to try out a headset I could actually work in, but personally my interest in the Apple Vision Pro basically disappeared when the Steam Frame was announced.
It's lower resolution, but I think it would probably be sufficient for light work, and I'm not really interested in the pass-through camera features of the AVP. The real differentiator though was that the steam frame will also work with my existing computer for gaming, and I think it's likely to be much more hackable than the Apple Vision.
WayVR is also worth checking out, if you're interested in using a native x11/Wayland desktop with a headset on Linux: https://github.com/wayvr-org/wayvr
May I ask what the recommendation is at the moment if I want a Linux AR headset that can take prescription lenses (or accommodate glasses)? I'd like to write my own code but not have to beg somebody else to let me run it.
Steam frame is out soon and should be the ultimate Linux friendly headset. It runs real Linux and Valve is big on “it’s your computer to use as you please”.
Signs really do seem to suggest it will be announced soon. There’s records of multiple large shipments of Virtual Reality headsets arriving at Valve, and they say it’s coming out this summer.
Oh absolutely wait like two weeks and get on the list for a Steam Frame. It actually runs arch Linux and Steam says “it’s your computer, you can do what you want with it” unlike Meta and the Quest. I’m excited to do Kicad in mine.
it’s too damn spooky. i know they rolled back or caveated some of the language after the uproar but i certainly would like to travel to the EU without any kind of anxiety about “do my open source apps mean im an EU felon if i forget to check github issues for security issues”
You can always switch to US app store region (cancel exisiting subscriptions, leave family, and wait until apple music/tv subscription is expired).
You won’t be able to use non-US credit card for the app store but you can always buy US virtual apple gift cards on amazon straight from apple shop there.
>3D in 2D in 3D. OpenGL clients can use GLX rendering over X11. Compatibility varies, as it did in the 2000s.
Made me chuckle. I think at one point in my life I actually knew which exact GL versions and features were working on which servers. Also it's pretty cool.
Still won't buy an AVP.
why not? Personally, I tried but the crap with my prescription because I wear glasses was too much, so I didn't end up getting one because I fail at executive function.
I need a new couch more than I need an AR headset, for one. $3,500 is a lot of money for a glorified devkit.
The Apple Lisa was introduced at around $10k (~$32k in today’s dollars). I do agree it is expensive but not historically out of line for a version one of a new product category for the company.
And thousands of Lisas went unsold, eventually getting dumped in a landfill after failing to find an eager audience like the Apple II enjoyed. There's a lesson, there.
Without the Lisa we wouldn’t have the Mac. The Vision Pro is a first gen of a new product category for Apple and I fully expect whatever comes from it will be very different than what we have today.
The Mac arrived one year and five days after the Lisa. Vision Pro is over two years old now. It got a speed bump, but not a price decrease.
I think the Vision Pro will be more like the Newton vs current iPads. Something will eventually replace it, but it will be significantly different, not slightly different, like Lisa vs Mac (I know they cut corners for the Mac, changing some nice OS features)
> Without the Lisa we wouldn’t have the Mac.
Without the NeXt Cube, we wouldn’t have the modern MacOS, or, for that matter, the iPhone (or Vision). Apple would certainly not be a multi-trillion-dollar company, and the Cube was a commercial flop.
In that case, it wasn’t the hardware, but the operating system and app development framework that made the difference.
You can pay half that on eBay at the moment.
Still expensive, for a devkit. $1,750 would buy me a new in-box Pimax Crystal, or likely a Steam Frame with enough money left over to afford a Steam Deck.
Vision Pro just doesn't have the content to justify that price. I use VR for flight simming, but even at half-off the Vision Pro looks like one of the worst immersive headsets money can buy.
im an apple enjoyer with disposable income, i bought because my brother worked on the foveated rendering, but goddamn it’s so heavy that if i use for >2hrs i’ll have neck pain for >2 days. it’s neat and fantastic for chores and cooking if i wear for 30min at a time but super impractical for me to actually use if im not speed running exactly one task
Are you using the new better balanced harness?
yes. i think i need to do F1 driver neck training or something.
I've been interested in VR for a while and would be interested to try out a headset I could actually work in, but personally my interest in the Apple Vision Pro basically disappeared when the Steam Frame was announced.
It's lower resolution, but I think it would probably be sufficient for light work, and I'm not really interested in the pass-through camera features of the AVP. The real differentiator though was that the steam frame will also work with my existing computer for gaming, and I think it's likely to be much more hackable than the Apple Vision.
Yes I really hope the memory storage just leads to a delay and not a cancellation.
> why not?
For me it's nausea and motion sickness. When my ears don't sync with my eyes, my brain calls bug(), and it doesn't end well.
PrisonOS. It isn't a computer. They control everything to take 30% sales and monopolize the ecosystem including controlling your whole body.
I can't believe the screenshot isn't running xeyes. At least it is TWM.
I was thinking the same thing
Right. The only thing I want to know is do the xeyes follow you around the room!?
Apps don’t get access to gaze position on the Vision Pro, for privacy/security reasons.
You can get the user's head position using WorldTrackingProvider, that's enough for xeyes to follow you across the room.
There's even a sample app close enough
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/visionOS/placing-e...
Could you run xeyes on the outside? IIRC Apple Vision had this outer display for rendering the bits of user's face that are covered by it.
Indeed, it's annoying that there doesn't seem to be an Apple-approved method for customizing the outer display.
Very creative!
Does anyone else besides me suspect X11 will outlive visionOS?
Certainly, XLibre just released a new version 25.2.0. I suspect X11 will long outlast Fedora
Hell I half expect X11 to outlast wayland at this point.
WayVR is also worth checking out, if you're interested in using a native x11/Wayland desktop with a headset on Linux: https://github.com/wayvr-org/wayvr
This is what I call interesting!
May I ask what the recommendation is at the moment if I want a Linux AR headset that can take prescription lenses (or accommodate glasses)? I'd like to write my own code but not have to beg somebody else to let me run it.
Meta Quest, but treat it as a dumb headset with ALVR?
Thanks!
Steam frame is out soon and should be the ultimate Linux friendly headset. It runs real Linux and Valve is big on “it’s your computer to use as you please”.
right after Half-Life 3 comes out soon.
Signs really do seem to suggest it will be announced soon. There’s records of multiple large shipments of Virtual Reality headsets arriving at Valve, and they say it’s coming out this summer.
Oh absolutely wait like two weeks and get on the list for a Steam Frame. It actually runs arch Linux and Steam says “it’s your computer, you can do what you want with it” unlike Meta and the Quest. I’m excited to do Kicad in mine.
Thanks, that looks tempting! Shame about the monochrome camera, but maybe I can use an add-on camera to colour in the world.
I'm GLaD to see more X11 projects recently
Seem to be unavailable in German App Store?…
Lots of individual / hobbyist developers are no longer publishing to the EU App Store due to Digital Services Act regulation and compliance.
it’s too damn spooky. i know they rolled back or caveated some of the language after the uproar but i certainly would like to travel to the EU without any kind of anxiety about “do my open source apps mean im an EU felon if i forget to check github issues for security issues”
Crimes require criminal intent, generally speaking.
I know startups who don't publish to certain EU countries because they have to fill "a big scary form"
You can always switch to US app store region (cancel exisiting subscriptions, leave family, and wait until apple music/tv subscription is expired).
You won’t be able to use non-US credit card for the app store but you can always buy US virtual apple gift cards on amazon straight from apple shop there.
Just that easy! /s
I guess it’s easier to find a testflight link if one is set up, or just to create a new account altogether, and sign in to it temporarily.
Interesting. I wonder if it's based on Xorg or something else
On that note, anybody has rayneo air4 pro working with x11?
Neat, it would be cool if it also worked on the Quest.
I thought it would have something to do with Weird Al. Oh well
Bet Raul's wild kingdom would be awesome in 3D...
It would be fun to teach poodles how to fly in 3D