X512 is an amazing treasure in the Haiku community. Other than nVidia hardware accelerated drivers, he ported Haiku to RiscV, got sound through HDMI and DisplayPort working, he got AMD Vulkan drivers for Southern Islands chipsets also working, made break throughs in dozens of other porting projects, he’s an amazing Hacker par excellance virtually unknown outside the Haiku community.
The Haiku "community" however is toxic, as are so many online "communities" these days. (Especially HN.)
I am a Chromium developer working on a special (heavily modified, initially closed source) Chromium fork. I offered to port my fork to Haiku, if a Haiku developer would buy the first source code license for $900 to help with development expenses, as I have zero income right now.
The reaction was: I was immediately accosted by a) the forum village idiot. You know the type: he dominates every thread and floods it with the stupidest questions and comments, plus b) this other self-absorbed asshole who accused me of being a scammer--and to top it off, when I responded with irritation to these two idiots, c) the Nazi admins, who decided to edit my responses and banned me, after I refused to edit them myself.
So yeah, X512 is great, but fuck Haiku and its bitch ass "community."
Looks like this may have been based on the nillerusr Source engine, which is based on a 2020 leak of the Source sources. nillerusr's engine has also been used to port some Valve games to Android.
I wish Valve would take a cue from id and release the source code to Source and/or at least GoldSrc under an open license. Though I have a hard time imagining them opening up code to more lucrative games like Team Fortress Classic or Counter-Strike classic. Nice dream though...
Source uses licenced middleware such as Havok so SDKs are likely all we're going to get officially. Source 2 might be a different story if HL3 releases one day since Valve replaced audio and physics with in-house technologies.
Realistically there isn't really any commercial value left in it though. While there were some notable unique games made with it (Titanfall 1 & 2, E.Y.E, The Stanley Parable, etc), these were made over a decade ago and the majority of games made with it are reworks/mods/adaptations of Half-Life related material.
> there isn't really any commercial value left in it though
I wonder why it never went mainstream. The Unreal engine went on to power a massive number of games. The Half-Life engines birthed a lot of mods, but wasn't used by many full games.
Unreal won because they invested in a whole ecosystem of tools to build interactive media and the community to support it. Only unity really compares (and I'm not sure how true even that is these days).
The Source engine isn't a blank slate engine like Unity. It's more like having unlimited power and permission to mod HL2. They just give you the HL2 code and say go nuts.
I half-jokingly thought to myself, "of course it's all software rendering, Haiku doesn't have GPU drivers", so imagine my amazement when I saw that this thread is about porting an NVidia GPU driver from Linux, and HL2 does, in fact, run with hardware acceleration.
Nifty to see... I always liked BeOS/Haiku from a tech perspective, but really don't care nearly as much for the UX or ergonomics... I really like a lot of the Windows 10 start menu and taskbar, but I do hate the MS search results/ads,etc so I switched to Linux for non-work and mostly Cosmic since later alphas.
Haiku will always be my favorite UX just for the ability to universally modify gui modifier keys distinct from changing the actual key mappings. Ie you can choose whether to use control or command as the main modifier—very slick, makes linux and windows feel like some creaky eighties remnant.
You can do less on the OLED with a few tweaks in the quick menu. Specifically the OLED because it has a more efficient APU. Limit APU to 3W, disable radio, maybe more.
> Anyway X86 is the past, risc-v is so completely lost into eternal future... only ARM really works right now.
I don't disagree but all of the recent Raspberry Pis have worse performance, cost more than x86, and barely use less power. There are so much better examples to showcase ARM.
I've watched his previous videos on Haiku and haven't been impressed with him. He doesn't seem to have in-depth knowledge of how software and drivers work, which is especially important given how work-in-progress it all is, and that the lineage of Haiku goes back to BeOS. The community has done a lot of good work, and he doesn't grasp it fully.
Yes, you have seen a video and you have seen them all. It can be resumed to "will it run minecrafts (or one of its clones)".
I guess he figured out the short 10-15min format is better for engagement bevause people brains have been destroyed by tiktok and instagram reels and barely anyone can concentrate for 30min on a subject but really it makes for very uninformative vids.
Sometimes there's just not more than 10-15min of content that even a (significant) niche audience would find interesting. There's also only so much time in a day / week to produce. The machine demands novelty.
I personally welcome creators moving to rely more on patronage systems (Patreon, Supporting Cast) from consumers, to gain/retain their independence from sponsors and platforms alike.
> He doesn't seem to have in-depth knowledge of how software and drivers work
I don't really think the point of his videos is to go into that level of detail. I think I'm someone who could understand that level of detail but I still watch his videos anyway since they're fun and engaging (same with others like Michael MJD), and have other YouTube channels that I might watch for more technical dives.
It's genuinely possible to do informative, fun and engaging videos on a niche OS; it does require a lot of skill and effort to pull off he does not have. His content has been way too shallow. There's a lot more to an OS than just the Desktop Environment being different, and 'Can it run Minecraft' (with missing/broken drivers he doesn't understand).
Perhaps it’s too much of a reoccurring gimmick but his videos are squarely in the “tech-aware consumer” user profile, not a pro developer or editor. It’s like how LGR does retrospectives and deep-dives on hardware from a purely hobbyist-enthusiast customer perspective.
Hats off to the folks behind this for keeping such a cool project alive! This, ReactOS, and TempleOS have been my answer to the question of: "what should I install if I'm looking for something interesting?" for at least a decade. Obviously for vastly different reasons.
What I find depressing is because of idiotic Linux policies, it turns out nvidia hardware is easier to run on a 3rd party OS than hardware with otherwise fully open source drivers like Radeon.
This is just yet another example that you may think things in the hardware world have changed now that Linux "rules", but they have not.
See the first message of TFA. The author complains that amdgpu has way too many linuxisms that make it impractical to port it to non-Linux ( unless you are already emulating Linux). On the other hand, the nv kernel driver is portable, up to the point that it is easier to port that to Haiku and then change the entire Mesa to use it than it is to port amdgpu (which wouldn't need Mesa changes).
Of course a Linux driver is going to make use of Linuxims. That’s literally the point of a Linux device driver.
Given how performance-sensitive device like a graphics card is, you’d naturally want as few abstractions between your OS and your hardware as possible.
But there is no evidence whatsoever for what you are saying (in fact the nvidia drivers are portable and may perform comparably or even better than the free ones).
On the other hand here we have evidence of how this has made it impossible for any OS other than Linux to provide support for amdgpu (except if you rip a huge chunk of Linux code, which only works if your OS is extremely UNIX-like to begin with), while other OSes support NVidia cards just fine (which do not really have a complete free driver to begin with!).
They are literally the only one who has managed to do it,, and they do so by having a huge layer of compatibility that takes years to update to new versions and support newer generations. We do not know if it would be easier for BSD to support nvidia either ... because they already have nvidia drivers (released by nvidia itself).
On the other hand here we have a random guy that adds support for nvidia gpus, by himself, on a non-linux, non-bsd kernel. And specifically claims he will not do the radeon one because he finds it too much work.
Nvidia drivers being crap has nothing to do with Linux policies. It's entirely up to Nvidia to invest and improve their drivers but it's clearly not a priority. Their focus is AI. If you need a CUDA accelerator, they're great. Graphics or even display output? Better have a second AMD or Intel card for that.
When people get doom running on a toaster, do you also ask how many people game on a toaster? It's more about the technical challenge of the whole deal.
I wonder how many people are flying to space in rockets for rocket launches to make the frontpage? It's just interesting. Haiku is cool, and getting relatively complex games to run on it is a good signal that it is making progress.
X512 is an amazing treasure in the Haiku community. Other than nVidia hardware accelerated drivers, he ported Haiku to RiscV, got sound through HDMI and DisplayPort working, he got AMD Vulkan drivers for Southern Islands chipsets also working, made break throughs in dozens of other porting projects, he’s an amazing Hacker par excellance virtually unknown outside the Haiku community.
He's by far the #1 best thing about Haiku.
The Haiku "community" however is toxic, as are so many online "communities" these days. (Especially HN.)
I am a Chromium developer working on a special (heavily modified, initially closed source) Chromium fork. I offered to port my fork to Haiku, if a Haiku developer would buy the first source code license for $900 to help with development expenses, as I have zero income right now.
The reaction was: I was immediately accosted by a) the forum village idiot. You know the type: he dominates every thread and floods it with the stupidest questions and comments, plus b) this other self-absorbed asshole who accused me of being a scammer--and to top it off, when I responded with irritation to these two idiots, c) the Nazi admins, who decided to edit my responses and banned me, after I refused to edit them myself.
So yeah, X512 is great, but fuck Haiku and its bitch ass "community."
Looks like this may have been based on the nillerusr Source engine, which is based on a 2020 leak of the Source sources. nillerusr's engine has also been used to port some Valve games to Android.
I wish Valve would take a cue from id and release the source code to Source and/or at least GoldSrc under an open license. Though I have a hard time imagining them opening up code to more lucrative games like Team Fortress Classic or Counter-Strike classic. Nice dream though...
Source uses licenced middleware such as Havok so SDKs are likely all we're going to get officially. Source 2 might be a different story if HL3 releases one day since Valve replaced audio and physics with in-house technologies.
That’s kind of the goal of S&Box, no?
https://sbox.game
I thought the point of s&box was to make a very profitable micro transaction marketplace.
Is literally invoking the havok api protected by licensing?
Yep, IIRC Havok’s licensing explicitly disallows redistribution of their technology, including headers and pre-compiled binaries.
Source 1 is a good example here, where licensees of source need to also obtain a havok license before Valve can give them any code.
Why should Valve give up their leverage. They actively pick and choose who they license the engine to.
Realistically there isn't really any commercial value left in it though. While there were some notable unique games made with it (Titanfall 1 & 2, E.Y.E, The Stanley Parable, etc), these were made over a decade ago and the majority of games made with it are reworks/mods/adaptations of Half-Life related material.
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/List_of_third-party...
> there isn't really any commercial value left in it though
I wonder why it never went mainstream. The Unreal engine went on to power a massive number of games. The Half-Life engines birthed a lot of mods, but wasn't used by many full games.
Unreal won because they invested in a whole ecosystem of tools to build interactive media and the community to support it. Only unity really compares (and I'm not sure how true even that is these days).
The Source engine isn't a blank slate engine like Unity. It's more like having unlimited power and permission to mod HL2. They just give you the HL2 code and say go nuts.
Old-ish Source has a pretty generous license, no? https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master... GoldSrc is there somewhere as well. I’m definitely grateful for it. I’ve read some of it myself and watched a bunch of Youtube about it.
That repository is not the engine, it's just the code for the client.dll/server.dll binaries that contain game-specific logic and some other tools.
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/halflife on the other hand is the full Half-Life (GoldSrc) engine, but it's not quite an open license.
I'm pretty sure this is just the mod SDK as well.
That is just the SDK, but there is an unofficial open source implementation of goldsrc.
https://github.com/fwgs/xash3d-fwgs
Also based on leaks/reverse-engineering.
I always thought it'd be hilarious if they released an engine called "open source" (or, someone made a source replacement called that)
I half-jokingly thought to myself, "of course it's all software rendering, Haiku doesn't have GPU drivers", so imagine my amazement when I saw that this thread is about porting an NVidia GPU driver from Linux, and HL2 does, in fact, run with hardware acceleration.
The title is heavily editorialised and misleading.
When I see how much progress has been made on Haiku I wonder whether it can be used as a daily driver.
It's about as daily driveable as BeOS was in its heyday
Nifty to see... I always liked BeOS/Haiku from a tech perspective, but really don't care nearly as much for the UX or ergonomics... I really like a lot of the Windows 10 start menu and taskbar, but I do hate the MS search results/ads,etc so I switched to Linux for non-work and mostly Cosmic since later alphas.
The UX has always been my favorite part. It's like some mixup of OS/2 and Classic Mac OS
Reminds me a bit more of Amiga... that said, I just don't like the "handle" on the windows, and the launcher is a bit odd imo.
Haiku will always be my favorite UX just for the ability to universally modify gui modifier keys distinct from changing the actual key mappings. Ie you can choose whether to use control or command as the main modifier—very slick, makes linux and windows feel like some creaky eighties remnant.
As a long time BeOS fan (and user back in the day) I really enjoy reading about progress on Haiku. Similarly cool as the Half-Life 2 port is the work on the ARM platform. With early support for M1 Macs (https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/my-haiku-arm64-progress/19044...) and Raspberry Pi 500+ (https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/my-haiku-arm64-progress/19044...).
I think HL2 on portable 5W ARM linux is more interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl1nrDvmiII
I wanted to say, 5 watts, doesn't HL2 already run on Raspberry Pi? But then I realized, this thing seems to be powered by some kind of rpi?
https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/uconsole-kit-rpi-cm...
That's pretty cool though, do you have a video of it running on the device itself?
This is captured+streamed on the device with ffmpeg, but mobile phone video no.
Got a short of my own engine though: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LKYX7E3A0Dk
Damn this is so cool. In the future, a computer may even fit in your coat pocket!
I know it's not as cool but the Steam Deck can run HL2 at just as low power consumption with its AMD APU.
"A normal Steam Deck consumes about 4 to 7 watts of total system power when idling on the home screen with low screen brightness."
Maybe HL2 brings zero overhead to idle then?
Anyway X86 is the past, risc-v is so completely lost into eternal future... only ARM really works right now.
You can do less on the OLED with a few tweaks in the quick menu. Specifically the OLED because it has a more efficient APU. Limit APU to 3W, disable radio, maybe more.
> Anyway X86 is the past, risc-v is so completely lost into eternal future... only ARM really works right now.
I don't disagree but all of the recent Raspberry Pis have worse performance, cost more than x86, and barely use less power. There are so much better examples to showcase ARM.
> Maybe HL2 brings zero overhead to idle then?
It went like particularly dry shit off a teflon shovel on my Duron 700 when it was new so I can't imagine it would tax a nice modern chip much.
You can run HL2 at 1080p 60fps in 5W on Armada on the AYN Thor (on the Eco performance profile). That includes a screen and speakers.
looking forward to see Action Retro's shenanigans on YouTube with this.
I've watched his previous videos on Haiku and haven't been impressed with him. He doesn't seem to have in-depth knowledge of how software and drivers work, which is especially important given how work-in-progress it all is, and that the lineage of Haiku goes back to BeOS. The community has done a lot of good work, and he doesn't grasp it fully.
Yes, you have seen a video and you have seen them all. It can be resumed to "will it run minecrafts (or one of its clones)".
I guess he figured out the short 10-15min format is better for engagement bevause people brains have been destroyed by tiktok and instagram reels and barely anyone can concentrate for 30min on a subject but really it makes for very uninformative vids.
Sometimes there's just not more than 10-15min of content that even a (significant) niche audience would find interesting. There's also only so much time in a day / week to produce. The machine demands novelty.
At some point your channel can only collapse when your content is resumed to:
And today's sponsor is a brand I will lie about for 2 minutes...thank you for watching, please click and subscribe!
It is only a matter of time.
Is that inevitable?
I personally welcome creators moving to rely more on patronage systems (Patreon, Supporting Cast) from consumers, to gain/retain their independence from sponsors and platforms alike.
Full disclosure, I work for Supporting Cast ;)
> He doesn't seem to have in-depth knowledge of how software and drivers work
I don't really think the point of his videos is to go into that level of detail. I think I'm someone who could understand that level of detail but I still watch his videos anyway since they're fun and engaging (same with others like Michael MJD), and have other YouTube channels that I might watch for more technical dives.
It's genuinely possible to do informative, fun and engaging videos on a niche OS; it does require a lot of skill and effort to pull off he does not have. His content has been way too shallow. There's a lot more to an OS than just the Desktop Environment being different, and 'Can it run Minecraft' (with missing/broken drivers he doesn't understand).
Perhaps it’s too much of a reoccurring gimmick but his videos are squarely in the “tech-aware consumer” user profile, not a pro developer or editor. It’s like how LGR does retrospectives and deep-dives on hardware from a purely hobbyist-enthusiast customer perspective.
Dang. Half-Life 2 ruled my high school life. it is still insane.
But can it run Crysis?
Under Wine? Yes.
Hats off to the folks behind this for keeping such a cool project alive! This, ReactOS, and TempleOS have been my answer to the question of: "what should I install if I'm looking for something interesting?" for at least a decade. Obviously for vastly different reasons.
This is great, but can we get a port to BeBox please. ;)
What I find depressing is because of idiotic Linux policies, it turns out nvidia hardware is easier to run on a 3rd party OS than hardware with otherwise fully open source drivers like Radeon.
This is just yet another example that you may think things in the hardware world have changed now that Linux "rules", but they have not.
Are you talking about driver ABIs or something else?
What makes it easier?
See the first message of TFA. The author complains that amdgpu has way too many linuxisms that make it impractical to port it to non-Linux ( unless you are already emulating Linux). On the other hand, the nv kernel driver is portable, up to the point that it is easier to port that to Haiku and then change the entire Mesa to use it than it is to port amdgpu (which wouldn't need Mesa changes).
Of course a Linux driver is going to make use of Linuxims. That’s literally the point of a Linux device driver.
Given how performance-sensitive device like a graphics card is, you’d naturally want as few abstractions between your OS and your hardware as possible.
But there is no evidence whatsoever for what you are saying (in fact the nvidia drivers are portable and may perform comparably or even better than the free ones).
On the other hand here we have evidence of how this has made it impossible for any OS other than Linux to provide support for amdgpu (except if you rip a huge chunk of Linux code, which only works if your OS is extremely UNIX-like to begin with), while other OSes support NVidia cards just fine (which do not really have a complete free driver to begin with!).
> But there is no evidence whatsoever
No evidence that a Linux driver targets Linux? Isn’t that what you’re moan about?
What do you mean? BSDs have tons of code lifted from the Linux amdgpu driver.
They are literally the only one who has managed to do it,, and they do so by having a huge layer of compatibility that takes years to update to new versions and support newer generations. We do not know if it would be easier for BSD to support nvidia either ... because they already have nvidia drivers (released by nvidia itself).
On the other hand here we have a random guy that adds support for nvidia gpus, by himself, on a non-linux, non-bsd kernel. And specifically claims he will not do the radeon one because he finds it too much work.
Right, I thought you meant there was some GPL-caused license issue.
Nvidia drivers being crap has nothing to do with Linux policies. It's entirely up to Nvidia to invest and improve their drivers but it's clearly not a priority. Their focus is AI. If you need a CUDA accelerator, they're great. Graphics or even display output? Better have a second AMD or Intel card for that.
i wonder how many people are using haikuos enough to make frontpage of video game on that os ?
When people get doom running on a toaster, do you also ask how many people game on a toaster? It's more about the technical challenge of the whole deal.
I love it, this is OG hacker news
I wonder how many people are flying to space in rockets for rocket launches to make the frontpage? It's just interesting. Haiku is cool, and getting relatively complex games to run on it is a good signal that it is making progress.
Add in the number of people who have fond memories of BeOS
.o/
But then what did you expect?