A good majority of Americans want voter id.
https://www.cnn.com/2026/07/28/politics/video/the-odds-voter...
So a party calling for voter id is following the will of the people, while politicians opposing the will of the people are justifying the need for a fix, right?
> politicians opposing the will of the people are justifying the need for a fix, right?
That's a funny way of saying that they support the status quo, which has never been provably linked to large-scale voter fraud.
If you want voter ID, here's the procedure: establish evidence showing that its need outweighs its disadvantages, then pass a bill in Congress, then implement the bill. Signing an Executive Order that demands illegal overreach without justification is not the American way.
If voter ID was accompanied by mandatory free ID services at the polls, it could be a net good. Short of that, it's definitely more harm than good.
Agreed, if id becomes madatory for voting then an appropriate id needs to be provided for free, otherwise it is effectively a poll tax, and poll taxes are illegal.
What evidence do you have it’s bad? Most of Europe and Asia requires some form of id
Most of Europe and Asia have mandatory, free national ID cards.
Every state in the US has free ID cards that work for voting.
No, they do not. Getting an ID card in most places requires a fee, as well a trip to the DMV or equivalent, and providing documentation such as a birth certificate, which also requires a fee. You take this process for granted because you live a privileged life, but for many people, taking a day off work and paying $50 to get an ID is an insurmountable obstacle, especially when it offers no immediate tangible benefit in their daily lives.
If voter ID advocates feel so strongly about their position, they would support mandatory ID. The fact that they don't support mandatory ID shows their real agenda: they don't care about securing elections, they care only about excluding the undesirable class from elections.
>No, they do not.
Yes they do.
>Getting an ID card in most places requires a fee,
False, there are no fees for voter IDs. Please find a state where you believe this is true.
>as well a trip to the DMV or equivalent
Not always.
>and providing documentation such as a birth certificate, which also requires a fee.
False. Many (all?) states provide free birth certificates for voter IDs.
>You take this process for granted
I don't take this process for granted, it's the same process across the first world.
>because you live a privileged life, but for many people, taking a day off work and paying $50 to get an ID is an insurmountable obstacle,
Nice soft bigotry of low expectations. You're so privileged that you actually believe this objectively false propaganda. The fact that you've repeated it to multiple times to virtue signal which may dissuade people to vote is a luxury belief [0]. Who believes luxury beliefs? Privileged peopled.
>If voter ID advocates feel so strongly about their position, they would support mandatory ID.
They do.
>The fact that they don't support mandatory ID
False, they do support free IDs.
>they don't care about securing elections, they care only about excluding the undesirable class from elections.
Repeating propaganda doesn't make it true.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_belief
> Yes they do.
Okay, we're at that level of argument, I see. Well, you forgot to bring your evidence. A drivers license in New York costs between $64.25 and $107.5
>>as well a trip to the DMV or equivalent > Not always.
Please explain how a an ID issued without an in-person visit is supposed to securely represent a person's citizenship status? That is the point, after all, right?
> False. Many (all?) states provide free birth certificates for voter IDs.
Absolutely not true. Even if it were true, it's still friction, which is ~10% of the American population lacks an ID that would be required to vote. If you're trying to convince me that getting an ID is free and easy, you'll need to explain first why everyone who needs such an ID doesn't already have one.[1]
> I don't take this process for granted, it's the same process across the first world.
European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not.
> virtue signal
Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice. To whom am I virtue signalling? My massive Instagram following (which I don't have)? Maybe you falsely accuse other people of chasing clout because the idea of pursuing justice for its own sake is completely foreign to your own morality.
>>If voter ID advocates feel so strongly about their position, they would support mandatory ID. >They do.
Please check your facts. Free, mandatory ID was offered as amendment by Democrats to the recent voter ID law and was voted down by Republicans. [2]
>>The fact that they don't support mandatory ID >False, they do support free IDs.
That's not what I said. In order for voter ID laws to be fair, IDs must be not only free, but mandatory for everyone and issued automatically. Republicans have consistently voted against such a law.
>they don't care about securing elections, they care only about excluding the undesirable class from elections.
Do you really disagree with that statement? Can you then explain why the GOP has systematically disenfranchised voters? Just a few recent examples:
* Georgia improperly purged legitimate voters https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/19/georgia-gove...
* Tarrant County, Texas dramatically reduces polling sites in Democrat-leaning areas, despite population growth https://fortworthreport.org/2026/09/01/advocates-demand-incr...
* Tennessee (among other states) gerrymanders its districts to disenfranchise minority voters https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-memphis-voters-fee...
> Repeating propaganda doesn't make it true.
I absolutely agree with this statement. Somebody should tell Donald Trump (and his rabid followers), who despite your exhortation insists on lying about election fraud.
[1] https://voteriders.org/article/who-doesnt-have-an-id-in-amer...
[2] https://apnews.com/article/save-act-senate-voting-bill-trump...
>Okay, we're at that level of argument, I see. Well, you forgot to bring your evidence.
So did you.
>A drivers license in New York costs between $64.25 and $107.5
This is about voter IDs (which are free), not drivers licenses. Now you're moving goalposts.
>Please explain how a an ID issued without an in-person visit is supposed to securely represent a person's citizenship status? That is the point, after all, right?
Many states have mobile DMV offices that are stationed within walking distance during the year, special programs where DMV employees go to the homes of those in need to verify documentation, etc.
>Absolutely not true. Even if it were true, it's still friction, which is ~10% of the American population lacks an ID that would be required to vote.
It's absolutely true. Yes, if you lose documentation such as birth certificates, you may be required to acquire them. Same as any first world country.
>European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not.
The US has this via the states, not federally.
>Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice.
You're not supporting justice, you're regurgitating false propaganda.
>To whom am I virtue signalling? My massive Instagram following (which I don't have)?
Like Karens virtue signaling in the town square about being good Christians.
>Maybe you falsely accuse other people of chasing clout because the idea of pursuing justice
You're not "pursuing justice" you're regurgitating BlueSky brainrot to feel morally superior.
>Please check your facts. Free, mandatory ID was offered as amendment by Democrats to the recent voter ID law and was voted down by Republicans.
Free voter ID is provided by every Republican state. The link you posted literally states that Democrats blocked the bill LOL!
>That's not what I said. In order for voter ID laws to be fair, IDs must be not only free, but mandatory for everyone and issued automatically. Republicans have consistently voted against such a law.
That is exactly what every state has. Every Republican state has this. Find a state that does not have this.
>Do you really disagree with that statement? Can you then explain why the GOP has systematically disenfranchised voters?
Stop moving the goalposts. Your claims about voter ID are fake propaganda. Voter IDs are free in every state, you cannot deny this fact.
> So did you.
Did you not see the links to factual evidence that I included?
> This is about voter IDs (which are free), not drivers licenses. Now you're moving goalposts.
Most people get their in the form of a driver's license, not as a pure voter ID. If a tiny minority of people get the free option, then how is it relevant?
> Many states have mobile DMV offices that are stationed within walking distance during the year, special programs where DMV employees go to the homes of those in need to verify documentation, etc.
This makes no sense. "Walking distance" to what? I have never heard of or seen such a program. If they exist, they are not terribly effective, given that 10% of the population still lack a valid ID.
> It's absolutely true. Yes, if you lose documentation such as birth certificates, you may be required to acquire them. Same as any first world country.
That's not how it works in Europe (at least in Netherlands and Czech Republic, where I have experience). In that case, the government already has your birth cert, so they don't force you to acquire it and then give it back to a different part of the government. Only the US sets up these additional obstacles. Which, again, is why 10% of Americans don't have a valid ID, a fact that you refuse to address.
>>European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not. > The US has this via the states, not federally.
Can you please name a single US state that automatically issues ID to all voters? I can't.
>>Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice. > You're not supporting justice, you're regurgitating false propaganda.
What about "making sure that eligible voters and vote" is not about justice?
> Like Karens virtue signaling in the town square about being good Christians.
Not an answer to my question.
> You're not "pursuing justice" you're regurgitating BlueSky brainrot to feel morally superior.
You already said that, but you are just making baseless accusations. You don't know my mind. Let me ask you this: do you categorically refuse the possibility that anyone pursues justice for its own sake? Were MLK Jr, Ghandi, the Sufragettes, the abolitoinists all just "virtue signalling", or do you think that some people actually care about making the world a better place?
It's really hard to take your argument seriously when doubt the good faith of arguments made with support facts that help people and support democracy. Clearly no one in the MAGA camp could be accused of "virtue signalling" because they have no virtues. On the contrary, MAGA members publicly signal their devotion to groupthink by willfully blocking out unpleasant facts and pledging fealty to a prodigious liar.
> Free voter ID is provided by every Republican state. The link you posted literally states that Democrats blocked the bill LOL!
You keep on ignoring important words in my comment. In this case, you specifically edited out "automatic" and "mandatory." The absence of those words is why Democrats blocked the bill.
> That is exactly what every state has. Every Republican state has this. Find a state that does not have this.
Literally no state has this. I live in a red state and I have to go in and request a voter ID, using appropriate evidence. They are not issued automatically. I challenge you to find any evidence supporting the idea that any state automatically issues ID.
> Stop moving the goalposts. Your claims about voter ID are fake propaganda. Voter IDs are free in every state, you cannot deny this fact.
Calling it propganda doesn't make it untrue. You have failed to address the many examples of disenfranchisement at the hands of the GOP.
My conclusion, based on the evidence presented in this thread: Either you are a terrible debater who consistently disregards evidence and arguments presented by the opponent, or you are debating in bad faith and intentionally ignoring evidence that disagrees with your preconceived conclusion. Which is it?
>Did you not see the links to factual evidence that I included?
You did not link to any factual evidence that made any claim contrary to the facts: Every state has free voter IDs. This is a fact.
>Most people get their in the form of a driver's license, not as a pure voter ID. If a tiny minority of people get the free option, then how is it relevant?
So not only do you now admit that free options exist, you're trying to claim they're irrelevant. Millions of people get free voter IDs, they're not irrelevant. This is a fact you just admitted to, which was my original claim. I accept your defeat.
>This makes no sense. "Walking distance" to what? I have never heard of or seen such a program. If they exist, they are not terribly effective, given that 10% of the population still lack a valid ID.
"I haven't heard about it so it doesn't exist."
>That's not how it works in Europe (at least in Netherlands and Czech Republic, where I have experience). In that case, the government already has your birth cert, so they don't force you to acquire it and then give it back to a different part of the government.
That's exactly how it works in Europe, Czech Republic. If you don't have a copy, you request a new one.
To acquire the machine-readable version of the card, a citizen must present either a currently valid card (in case of renewals), or a currently valid passport, or a birth certificate and proof of citizenship.[0]
Birth certificate. Sound familiar?
>so they don't force you to acquire it and then give it back to a different part of the government.
That's not how it works in the US, you do not give away your birth certificate to a different part of the government.
>Which, again, is why 10% of Americans don't have a valid ID, a fact that you refuse to address.
That's not why 10% don't have ID nor did I fail to address it. School is mandatory in the US yet 15% of Americans are illiterate.
>Can you please name a single US state that automatically issues ID to all voters? I can't.
Not every European country has mandatory IDs. Like Europe, every state in the US has free voter IDs. Every single state, you cannot deny this fact.
>Not an answer to my question.
You don't need a known audience to virtue signal to.
>do you categorically refuse the possibility that anyone pursues justice for its own sake?
You're not pursing justice, you're spew false propaganda and fighting a problem that doesn't exist.
>Clearly no one in the MAGA...
Whataboutism.
>You keep on ignoring important words in my comment. In this case, you specifically edited out "automatic" and "mandatory." The absence of those words is why Democrats blocked the bill.
That's not why they blocked the bill.
>Literally no state has this. I live in a red state and I have to go in and request a voter ID, using appropriate evidence. They are not issued automatically.
No country issues an ID automatically to anyone who makes a request. The ID is issued to you automatically after proving who you are. You don't need to petition the state with an attorney or pay a fee.
I'll say it again, every state in the US has free voter IDs. EVERY state, red and blue.
QED.
>Calling it propganda doesn't make it untrue.
Your statement was false, untrue. You finally admitted above that you were wrong.
>My conclusion, based on the evidence presented in this thread: Either you are a terrible debater who consistently disregards evidence
Poor conclusion. Find a single state that does not have free voter IDs.
>intentionally ignoring evidence that disagrees with your preconceived conclusion.
No evidence disagrees with my original statement of fact:
Every US state issues a free voter ID cards. Even Republican strongholds.
QED.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_national_identity_card
> You did not link to any factual evidence that made any claim contrary to the facts: Every state has free voter IDs.
You keep on repeating that. Your brain is hyper-focused on "every state has free voter ID card". Meanwhile you are consistently ignoring the context: 10% of Americans don't have voter ID of any kind. No state issues voter ID automatically. Those Americans will be disenfranchised under a Republican voter ID law. Until you can solve the disenfranchisement issue, voter ID requirement cannot be supported.
> So not only do you now admit that free options exist, you're trying to claim they're irrelevant.
Whether or not they cost money is not the point. The point is whether getting them is an obstacle that will disenfranchise legal voters.
> I accept your defeat.
Lol are you literally 13 years old? You definitely act like it.
>>This makes no sense. "Walking distance" to what? I have never heard of or seen such a program. If they exist, they are not terribly effective, given that 10% of the population still lack a valid ID. > "I haven't heard about it so it doesn't exist."
You didn't actually address my question. I asked "walking distance to what" because that obviously matters. And I didn't say they don't exist, I said that they aren't effective.
> That's exactly how it works in Europe, Czech Republic. If you don't have a copy, you request a new one.
No. In the Czech Republic, they are issued automatically because the government already has your birth certificate. Because IDs there are universal, there is a much lower barrier to entry. You dont know what you are talking about.
> That's not how it works in the US, you do not give away your birth certificate to a different part of the government.
You don't "give it away" and I didn't say that you did. You need to acquire your birth cert, then show it to the DMV. I don't even know why you would even argue this. You're just arguing to be argumentative. Again, you have the mind of a 13 year old.
> That's not why 10% don't have ID nor did I fail to address it. School is mandatory in the US yet 15% of Americans are illiterate.
Completely irrelevant comparison. In European countries, everyone has voter ID because the IDs are issued automatically, which does not happen in the US.
> You don't need a known audience to virtue signal to.
You are sad, pathetic person.
> You're not pursing justice, you're spew false propaganda and fighting a problem that doesn't exist.
Sad, without morals. Your low estimation of your fellow man reflects the weak state of your own conscience. You assume (falsely) that everyone is as self-interested as you are. I hope you find someone who can show you beauty and kindness in the world.
> That's not why they blocked the bill.
Citation needed.
> No country issues an ID automatically to anyone who makes a request. The ID is issued to you automatically after proving who you are. You don't need to petition the state with an attorney or pay a fee.
That's not what I said. Stop putting words in my mouth. At the point I can only include that you are intentionally misinterpreting me in order, I don't know, win internet points or just fill up your vacuous life.
Debating someone who is not interested in actually understnading the world but just incessantly repeating themselves like a dying insect is not rewarding for me or educational for you. So please grow up. Until then, I won't continue this conversation.
If they gave a crap about the will of the people then why is marijuana still illegal? When you defy the will of the people 99% of the time, claiming your motivation is the will of the people when it is convenient rings pretty hollow.
I don't believe you argue in good faith. Troll behavior is so depressing.
A good majority of the Americans want Epstein's best buddies' jailed, instead the POTUS is one.
We just spent a year hearing from some asshole about how the government was spending too much money and couldn't afford frivolities, yet we're supposed to spend money on security theatre to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist, all because some other assholes are butthurt about losing an election fair and square?
Remember the people leading the charge for this are insurrectionists. They don't care about protecting voting or the concept of democracy at all.
New Jersey had 6600 hundred non citizens get ballots.
If you were writing software, would you overlook a problem like that?
https://www.politico.com/news/2026/07/30/new-jerseys-nonciti...
> If you were writing software, would you overlook a problem like that?
They didn't overlook it. They fixed the error.
If you are asserting that this error was a partisan, intentional attempt to change the outcome of the election, you're going to need to provide a lot more evidence before injecting USPS into election policy makes sense.
Moreover none of the proposed measures would have prevented that, as you said it was in fact an error.
The reason why this issue is so intractable is because the level of disruption must be measured against the risk of disenfranchisement. People would be happier to implement these unneeded security measures if there was more care by those proposing them to address those ways in which legal legitimate voters would be refused a ballot. And the fact they don't ever address those concerns is the whole tell that the disenfranchisement is the point. Instead it's always bad faith "Oh you want the elections to be unsecure, you're overlooking massive security holes!"
At the end of the day the biggest loudmouth in the world got people so mad about an election that they attacked the government, so then we were forced to spend years going over that election with a fine tooth comb only to turn up zilch. Even the Cyberninjas couldn't find the fraud they alleged when given direct unfettered access to voting records.
And yet, we still have to entertain claims about the boogeyman of voting as if they're in good faith. Prove it in just one court under high standards of evidence! But even the biggest loudmouths saying fraud won't say it under oath in front of a judge, because they don't have the evidence to back it up.
It's far past the point that noncitizens voting in elections should be considered the biggest threat to our democracy. No, the threat is an authoritarian, insurrectionist president trying to corrupt the election process.
I am asserting that errors happened. Invalid votes were cast, thousands more potentially could be cast. Just in one state. What about the rest? Clearly, there is potential for more problem areas.
The American public overwhelmingly wants voter ID, as other countries have, but this is a topic not entertained by one side of the political aisle. Or rather, by the party leaders—- the majority of their voters want voter ID, but the party won’t pursue it!
We can’t just shrug these things off. They are real.
I’d say there is enough to see here that more scrutiny is warranted. It should be bipartisan.
> I am asserting that errors happened.
Errors are not fraud. The current push by the Trump administration is (allegedly) about fraud.
> The American public overwhelmingly wants voter ID, as other countries have, but this is a topic not entertained by one side of the political aisle.
It's entertained if you can do it fairly. "Fairly" means everyone gets an ID automatically. Why do Republicans oppose given legal voters ID so that they can vote?
I don’t oppose that. What makes you think all Republicans would?
I want every single voter to have access to their vote, and I want strict proof that every vote cast was the knowledgeable will of that voter ( and only that voter. I’m thinking of ballot dumps at collection boxes here. )
The distinction between fraud and error doesn’t matter to me. The system has problems, ineligible voters have been casting votes. Nobody should oppose efforts to fix it.
> I don’t oppose that. What makes you think all Republicans would?
Because your elected GOP representatives consistently vote against it, when universally available ID is presented by Democrats as a condition for voter ID laws. Do you have a plausible explanation for why GOP Congressmen would reject that proposal? I sure do.
> Nobody should oppose efforts to fix it.
First you have to prove that there is a problem to fix. Fraud, as we've covered, has never been shown to be a significant issue, and software bugs, as I noted, are not cured by invasive and illegal USPS tactics. So what in your view could possibly be fixed by this latest move?
> What makes you think all Republicans would?
It doesn't matter when the guy leading the charge is an actual insurrectionist, who was caught trying to twist the arm of Georgia's governor to throw the election for him. What's even the point of voting if the President is just going to call up the governor and threaten to investigate him if he doesn't get his way? The people pushing this have a massive credibility problem and it's never going to go anywhere until more credible people, like yourself, are writing the bills and making the case you're making here from the Senate floor.
> The distinction between fraud and error doesn’t matter to me. The system has problems, ineligible voters have been casting votes. Nobody should oppose efforts to fix it.
There's a huge actual distinction between the two in that you can't fix all errors, nor can you prosecute errors (not accounting for negligence). Moreover, every system is going to have some amount of fraud; it's impossible to reduce fraud to zero without increasing costs to infinity. So at some level you have to make a choice between a flawed system and a system that's intractable.
Here's more recent proof that the system is working as intended:
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/potential-non-citiz...
So that's what we've talking about really, driving a 0.1% down to some other smaller infinitesimal number which cannot be 0, because even the perfect system would be subject to human errors.